Official Languages Committee on Feb. 24th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

In Grade II braille?

[Tommy Théberge]

Yes. If my memory serves me correctly, this version contains a total of 2,500 braille pages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You've transcribed the first book in the series?

[Tommy Théberge]

We've transcribed all of them. In fact, we've just completed Millennium.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We will begin our third round with Mr. Jean-Claude D'Amours.

Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Théberge, thank you for being here today.

There's been a lot of discussion about taxes, the right to vote and other issues, but you've come here primarily to discuss the standardization of braille in French. In my riding, it is not as though a majority of people are using braille. However, several people have visual impairments and have to use braille.

The smallest village in my riding has a population of 140 people. Access to these documents is certainly not easy. You stated earlier on that documents are now available at a cost. But in actual fact, how can these people have access to them? It's difficult enough for them today, so if you want to change the entire system... How do they even have a chance of receiving documents like people living in more urban areas?

[Tommy Théberge]

I'll answer your question in two parts.

First of all, that is a concern for the Institut Nazareth et Louis-Braille, because we serve the Montérégie. It is a very large area which includes Valleyfield and Vaudreuil-Soulanges, even Granby. There are a number of small remote villages in this area.

The Institute produces 10 editions per year of Carrefour Braille and Nouveau Départ. These magazines will be available in standardized braille as of September 2009. In preparation for this, we've planned to include in this edition a special section with an insert explaining changes to presentation rules to our readers. This service is free, for all readers. Even francophone readers from outside Quebec and from Europe receive our modest publication. It is a tool that allows people to receive reading material for free, in the comfort of their own homes. It is funded through our operations, but the idea is to provide people with a minimum amount of reading material.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I wondered about access to services in remote regions.

[Tommy Théberge]

The Quebec service for alternative format books of the Bibliothèque et Archives nationales du Québec provides document delivery services. A person can choose a book over the phone or by Internet and receive it in the mail in braille form or on a laser disk, in an audio format. It can then be sent back postage paid. You know that braille documents are postage free in Canada. That is one additional way to ensure that people in the regions have access to documents. Obviously, the documents would have to have been transcribed to begin with.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That is truly a dilemma.

[Tommy Théberge]

That is the issue.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Some services are offered, but if they're not available... It's all well and good to have a product, but you have to understand it. Harmonization is a good thing, but what will people have to do to understand? It's like learning a language: when things are going in one direction, you follow. If all of sudden someone decides to make changes, you have to learn to adapt. It is not obvious.

[Tommy Théberge]

We are here to offer support. All rehabilitation services in Quebec can meet this training need. I'd like to point out that when it comes to the symbols that make up the unified code, an a remains an a. The letters have not changed. A b remains a b. The difference has to do with the way in which information is presented.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

Mr. Lemieux, welcome to our committee, sir.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Théberge for joining us here today.

Last week I was in my riding. On Sunday, I attended an event and spoke to the parents of a boy with less than 15% vision. We discussed his education and braille. They told me that their son had started learning braille, but that he had decided to give it up in favour of other technology which can be helpful to him, such as computers, software, etc.

I would like to know if you have information to share with us on other technology that can help young people. I would also like to know what effect this new technology has on braille. Will braille remain as important, given this new technology?

[Tommy Théberge]

Your first question has to do with the teaching of braille and other methods available to students. When a student under the age of 10 is blind, we initiate him to braille without using any other tools. When you can see, you can see words, when you are blind, you need to touch them. For instance, the word water in French has homophones, it can be written in several ways. For educational purposes, young people must learn braille. It is doing young people a favour to teach them early. All grammar and spelling rules are a major consideration for young people. Very early on, they have to learn them if they want a long, happy, and successful academic career.

Your second question is interesting. Comparing braille with new technologies is a subject of some debate. Some people wonder whether braille will disappear. I will make an analogy, which may be somewhat shaky. When e-mail became accessible to all, people predicted that that was the end of paper. I don't think we've ever had as much paper as we have today. When it comes to braille, the same thing may apply. Over the last few years, I have sensed interest on the part of some private companies and public or quasi-public organizations who have requested braille transcriptions from us. We have noted an increase in the use of paper. Annually, we produce over one million pages of braille. This figure could easily increase.

Obviously it comes down to personal choice. Some people prefer audio tools, and model-based speech syntheses that use adapted software. They may use computers that provide verbal responses. A braille display unit shows the information appearing on the computer screen. It is one of the ways to compensate for the impairment. I personally think we need as many tools as possible in the tool box, including the ability to use braille. Often we work with a number of media, braille, paper and sound. It is by combining methods that people become more skilled at reading and writing.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Based on my notes, there are approximately 2,000 people using braille in Quebec. I would like to know whether you have an idea of the number of francophones in official minority communities who use braille.

[Tommy Théberge]

In Canada, there may be 2,500 or 3,000 of us. I am not basing these figures on anything specific. I think, if you're counting francophones throughout Canada, there are approximately 3,000 of us.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Lemieux.

Ms. Guay will complete our third round.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you very much.

To the contrary, I think that braille will never disappear. Braille is the alphabet for blind people. They need to learn their letters, numbers and syntax. Braille cannot disappear. If you don't know your letters, it will be impossible for you to write with the help of a computer. Even if you are able to communicate orally, this is an essential base that must remain.

I am learning braille with my father, and it is not easy. I think it is more difficult for a sighted person to learn than it is for someone who is visually impaired.

We are going to have to invest increasingly in braille and in assistance for the visually impaired, given the high number of degenerative diseases. My father suffers from a degenerative hereditary disease. We will be seeing more and more of these cases. Families and the people who are called on to assist them will have to be prepared for this psychologically.

[Tommy Théberge]

The caregivers.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes, there are the family caregivers. In the case of my father, I realized that the people who were coming to see him in his home were professionals. They were volunteers, but they were able to work very well with the visually impaired. These are not people that you find just anywhere. These are people who have been trained by the Nazareth Institute and who provide their assistance.

Back then, my father had screen enlargement for this television. Every time that there was a change in technology, the Nazareth Institute would call him to find out whether everything was going well and whether he wanted to change to a new technology. He was able to do so at that time; however, he no longer can now. Every week, someone brings him audio books that he can listen to, because he does not yet read braille well enough. He is 90 years old, and it is difficult for him to memorize things. He is no longer a 20-year-old and therefore things are more difficult and take longer.

I would like to thank you and encourage you to continue. If we can do anything, do not hesitate to contact us. I will be suggesting to the committee later on that we invite other witnesses to come and talk about this matter to us. This matter is extremely important. We often think that someone else is looking after this or we assign greater priority to other disabilities besides blindness. This is a disability that we really need to deal with, and you will have my full support.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Guay.

Do you have any comments to make, Mr. Théberge?

[Tommy Théberge]

To conclude, I would simply like to thank you for the interest you have shown in the issue of alternative media. If I can do anything whatsoever to help you, I would be pleased to do so. I provided Ms. Dumas with documents containing my contact information. If you need help or support, I would be pleased to provide it.

I will also be sending Ms. Dumas a document that summarizes the various issues pertaining to braille, but also as it relates to access to documents. We talked about various topics: voter and taxpayer rights, access to public buildings, geospatial representation. Braille involves many things. With the standardized French Braille Code, we will come to an agreement on a range of conventions that will be used to adapt future documents. But we need to have these documents and we need to be able to work on them.

Thank you very much. I look forward to seeing you again.