Official Languages Committee on March 12th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

While the members take their places, we'll begin our meeting, since we have a lot of witnesses.

Welcome, everyone, to our second meeting on support for postsecondary institutions and their efforts in promoting bilingualism in Canada. We have a full slate of witnesses this morning. I congratulate our research attachés for the work that has been done.

It's like fishing: sometimes you throw out a line and the fish don't bite as much, but today we really have a lot of people that we are very pleased to hear from. I'm going to introduce you. Starting on the left, we have Mr. Laurier Thibault, who is director general of the Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada. He is here with Mr. Yves Chouinard, who is one of the administrators.

Welcome.

Then, from the Canadian Association of University Teachers, we have Penni Stewart.

Welcome, Madam Stewart, to the committee.

She is here with Greg Allain, who is the past president and whom I welcome as well.

We also welcome officials from the Department of Human Resources and Social Development who are responsible for the component we are dealing with today. They are Mark Hopkins who is Director General of Learning Policy, and Mr. Segard, who is Director General of Program Policy and Planning Directorate.

In the fourth group, we have the Canadian Association of Second-Language Teachers, represented by its president, John Erskine, and the executive director, Ms. Thibault.

Welcome to our committee.

Without further ado, I am going to turn the floor over to witnesses. We could start with you, Mr. Thibault, if you want to go ahead with your introductory remarks.

[Laurier Thibault, Director General, Réseau des cégeps et collèges francophones du Canada]

Mr. Chouinard will be making the presentation on behalf of the RCCFC.

[Yves Chouinard, Administrator, Director General of the Collège communautraire du Nouveau-Brunswick, Réseau des cégeps et collèges francophones du Canada]

Mr. Chairman, committee members, colleagues, my name is Yves Chouinard. I am director general of the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick and I am also administrator of the Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada. I am here with Mr. Thibault, who is the director general of the RCCFC.

First, I want to thank the Standing Committee on Official Languages for giving our organization the opportunity to discuss the importance and unique role of our collegiate postsecondary education and training institutions. We know how concerned you are about promoting the development of our communities. There's no need to convince you that education and training in French are preferred means of achieving those objectives.

We firmly believe that our network, through its members across the country, is making an active contribution to the development of each of the communities where they are established. We are working on the ground; we are very close to the concerns and expectations of our young people; we offer training to adults; we are preparing the skilled workers of tomorrow, but not enough of them. Of course, like all of you, we are aware of the fragile and precarious nature of college instruction provided in French. This is what compels us to innovate and develop numerous partnerships in order to distinguish ourselves and to achieve our training and education objectives.

Our minority francophone colleagues have a twofold mandate. First, they must increase access to postsecondary education in French in the technical and occupational fields, in addition to supporting the development of their communities through their actions and active presence. Our institutions must develop registration thresholds in order to offer a range of competitive programs that meet labour market needs and their clientele's expectations. You will therefore understand that this raises challenges with regard to funding, innovation and partnerships in order to meet needs in an environment that is receptive to learning in French. And this must be stable, continuing and multi-year funding. It must be aimed not only at introducing services, but also at maintaining and developing them.

Since 1995, the RCCFC has been the national voice of 58 college-level French-language education and training institutions across Canada. Since its inception, its operation and a number of its activities have been funded by Canadian Heritage, on which we have always been able to rely. The RCCFC is mainly a network of mutual assistance, promotion, exchange and partnership. Its mission is to support the development of the Canadian francophone community by putting the expertise of its institutions at its service and raising the profile of French-language college-level instruction to government bodies.

Through its cooperation programs and networking initiatives, the RCCFC makes a significant contribution to French-language postsecondary education and training in all regions of the country. Through its actions, college-level institutions are increasingly making breakthroughs in minority communities, to the point where they now serve 8,500 full-time and 20,000 part-time francophone students, mainly in Ontario, New Brunswick, Manitoba and British Columbia.

In recent years, the RCCFC has organized and partly funded more than 65 joint projects covering various activities, sharing expertise and developing instructional programs adapted to the communities, as well as distance training exchanges. The network has piloted research projects on, for example, high school graduates' motivation to continue their postsecondary education in French. It has also facilitated the Far West project to introduce college-level French-language training in British Colombia, Alberta and Saskatchewan.

RCCFC has also taken part in student mobility pilot projects with 27 colleges across Canada so that their students can have a college experience in another province. The purpose of this program was not only to reinforce the Canadian identity, but also to improve college students' language skills, mobility and competencies.

However, our last co-funding application was denied in 2007 because it was no longer consistent with existing funding programs. However, we're back with our financial assistance application for the next three years, waiting for Human Resources and Social Development Canada to put its own Canadian student mobility program in place to supplement the international mobility program.

To promote and support immigration in our communities, we have begun a study on the academic success of students of different languages and cultures registered at our institutions. This study is funded by Canadian Heritage and Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Through it, we want to improve the adjustment and integration of francophone immigrants in our communities by identifying practices that work the best and by adapting them to their environment. In this way, we'll be able to determine best practices and to share them with all French-language college institutions in order to increase their academic success rates.

Our colleges have common points and preferred partners for community development. It is not without reason that the first two recommendations of the Lord Report specifically highlight the importance and prime position of education in community development and linguistic duality, by inviting the government to increase support for postsecondary institutions, a central point in our 2006-2011 action plan.

We firmly believe that our colleges are a good fit in the government's action areas outlined in the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality 2008-2013, particularly in the promotion of linguistic duality to Canadians, the emphasis on youth and improved access to services. However, it must never be forgotten that insufficient and inadequate funding can give an incorrect impression of the way in which we respond to education and training needs. Our institutions thus cannot be satisfied with staying in survival mode, because permanently looking for funding forces them into catch-up mode, which becomes systematic. In education, catching up means regressing. We have to move forward.

In 2006, the RCCFC established the Consortium national de développement de ressources pédagogiques en français au collégial, a pan-Canadian partnership to improve the quality of education for students in professional, technical and trade programs at minority francophone colleges. The consortium receives $250,000 annually from Canadian Heritage, but that is not enough to meet the many needs and requests from the colleges or to make even more teaching material available in French at the college level.

In another connection, based on the government's priorities set out in the Roadmap, on our experience with partnerships and on our technical expertise, we are developing a new paralanguage services program scheduled for early 2010. Studies by the Translation Bureau of Canada and certain translators associations show that the language industry is really expanding. That is why industry stakeholders unanimously confirm the importance and validity of establishing this kind of program in language technologies at the college level.

In addition, a number of francophone colleges and institutions offer language training to federal public servants and newcomers who are not fully proficient in one of the official languages. To carry out these mandates more effectively and to support the federal government, the RCCFC thinks it is important to establish a consortium, with appropriate funding, so that colleges are collectively recognized as language training service suppliers by the Government of Canada.

However, it is the infrastructure issue, one of the cornerstones of the January budget, that offers our colleges and institutions unique opportunities to carry out their education and community development mission. Moreover, the RCCFC's 2006-2011 action plan is perfectly consistent with the government's objectives.

It is our colleges that train the skilled, innovative and bilingual labour force, that take an active part in strengthening their communities and that put into practice their vast experience of sharing expertise across the country. The purpose of our primary action strategy is to put in place physical and virtual infrastructure to support the supply of college programs and services. College training outside Quebec is, above all, technical and professional training that prepares students directly for the labour market. The delivery of quality programs requires that specialized equipment and development be put in place.

We believe that we must further develop college infrastructure across the country, improve the quality of infrastructure already in place, invest in equipment acquisition and the development or even construction of infrastructure, and promote new programs. This is what we can call skills reinforcement in the service of the development of our communities.

The recent history of education in this country shows us that the supply of appropriate high-quality services and programs, in modern infrastructures, is a powerful stimulant of demand for French-language services.

It is not enough to wait for the demand to appear. It must be triggered, stimulated. In education, there is nothing more attractive for students and their future employers than a variety of relevant programs provided in modern infrastructures, learning assistance services with high tech equipment and, of course, high-quality instruction.

We take this opportunity to note that our requests and needs are not based solely on available funding for official languages development. In view of the urgent need to support employment in Canada, other federal departments and agencies should be involved with Canadian Heritage in infrastructure projects in particular. We believe it is important that our colleges and other training institutions have access to a diverse range of funding sources so that they can develop at the same rate as their anglophone counterparts. It must never be forgotten that our francophone students and their future employers expect high-quality training services consistent with their career objectives and skilled labour needs.

The RCCFC is of the view that colleges and postsecondary training institutions are privileged government partners in the struggle against the forces of regression, mediocrity and assimilation. By training quality, innovative and bilingual workers, we hope to carry out our twofold education and training mandate even more effectively, while contributing to the development of our communities.

Thank you. I will be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Chouinard.

We'll now move on to the Canadian Association of University Teachers, with Madame Penni Stewart.

[Penni Stewart, President, Canadian Association of University Teachers]

My colleague, Greg Allain, will present for us.

[Greg Allain, Past President, Canadian Association of University Teachers]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Penni.

My name is Greg Allain. I am a sociology professor at the Université de Moncton and past president of the Canadian Association of University Teachers. I am here with our president, Penni Stewart, professor at York University. Many thanks to the committee for inviting us to make a presentation on official languages this morning.

My presentation will address three points. The first point will concern the official languages role of our members at the postsecondary level.

Our members provide training through a full range of academic and professional programs in both official languages in a broad variety of minority official language communities, from Vancouver to Church Point. Many of our members provide training in the minority language. For example, we train primary and secondary school teachers, nurses, doctors, lawyers and social workers, not to mention journalists, researchers, artists and so on. Our members also provide a varied range of instruction in the second official language at various levels, including the postsecondary level.

Outside Quebec, many of our members perform duties in French in official language minority communities, in university certificate, undergraduate, master's and doctoral level degree programs at colleges and universities in every province.

The second point of my presentation concerns funding. We absolutely acknowledge the central position that the two official languages occupy in Canada, and we entirely support the introduction of Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality 2008-2013: Acting for the Future, and I quote:

Both official languages, English and French, represent a great cultural wealth for Canada. As a founding and fundamental characteristic of Canadian identity and culture, linguistic duality is at the heart of the values that have forged Canada, making it a strong and united country that is open to the world.

We absolutely agree on the importance that is attached to programs for supporting and promoting official languages. However, one of the problems we are facing is funding. The very nature of postsecondary education programs requires stable, firm, funding commitments, particularly in the official language minority communities. That partly reflects their need to be recognized as equal partners, alongside programs intended for the majority communities. The latter will always risk attracting minority students, particularly if those majority language programs receive guaranteed funding.

The nature of postsecondary programs is such that they frequently require a cycle of three or four years before granting a degree. In that sense, any softer or periodic funding jeopardizes the ability of postsecondary institutions to deliver programs at all levels. Without this kind of funding and institutional commitment, programs may seem precarious to professors and students alike.

To attract highly qualified academic staff to offer these programs and thus to contribute to the minority official language communities, postsecondary institutions need the type of hiring commitment that is the standard in this area of postsecondary employment, that is to say positions that become permanent for universities and regular hires for colleges. Short-term funding programs, even those spread over five years, those agreements that we're living with right now, may not be able to attract qualified professionals in the official language minority communities. If they are able, there is a risk they will be unable to retain them.

I'm going to give you an example, then we will return to the discussion.

At the University of Moncton, the five-year agreements with the universities appear to be working quite well, but the preparation process for those agreements is very long and arduous. The other problem is that measures appear to be lacking for there to be any continuity between agreements once they expire. In other words, there is a problem of continuity to ensure continuity between agreements once they expire. At my university, the current five-year agreement has just expired. I imagine the same is true at the other New Brunswick universities. The university will send its applications out for April like all the other universities. We're told that we'll have to wait two years before we get an answer. In other words, everything that comes under that agreement is frozen, which represents a lot of things. We are reliant on Canadian Heritage and to the official language agreements. There is a kind of de facto two-year freeze, which causes a lot of uncertainty.

My sociology department has been working for three years to develop a new bachelor's degree in criminology, a field very much in demand across Canada. We get a lot of applications from students who want to take this training. The program has just been approved by all authorities and has arrived at the funding stage. Since it's a new program in a targeted field, this application is among the applications for the new five-year agreement. We're told we won't have any news for two years. It appears the province takes quite a bit of time to do its job. I don't know where the system is blocked.

The criminologist we hired developed the program and is now ready to give it, to promote it and so on. If it isn't right away, it will be next year. However, we don't have any money to pay her and we won't be getting an answer for two years. That's a major problem. We may lose that person, and program implementation will be delayed further. That's what I have to say on the funding question.

The third and final point concerns the unrecognized additional work that our members have to do with regard to official languages. Under the current funding formula, our members often face excess work to develop programs and the culture of official language minority communities. However, that excess work is not officially acknowledged or remunerated. For example, the documentary resources for teaching and research in the minority official language are frequently limited, whether it be textbooks, scientific works or electronic resources. Where they exist, books and material in French are generally more expensive.

At first, the teachers at the major francophone universities in Quebec were members of CAUT, which has been in existence since 1951, but, when the Quebec federation was established, around 1972, they obviously joined it. Consequently, only a few CAUT members are francophones. Our members work in smaller institutions, the Université de Moncton being the largest. There is also the Université Sainte-Anne, the Collège universitaire the Saint-Boniface and so on. As the libraries of the small institutions are often lacking in various areas, teachers are often required to translate teaching material not available in French. However, that additional work is not acknowledged and it undermines efforts to recruit and retain qualified teachers.

Investment is required at a number of levels. We could provide support for small publishing firms outside Quebec that translate English-language works that have no equivalent in French. People tell us to publish our own textbooks. That's what some colleagues have tried to do, but the major publishing firms are located in Quebec and are not interested in publishing works not intended specifically for Quebeckers. They say that the market outside Quebec isn't big enough. There should be support for the creation of a national consortium for the acquisition of French-language postsecondary libraries across Canada. Support could also be provided for the establishment of a pan-Canadian electronic network for universal access to electronic resources that are expanding as a result of increasing digitization. These are only a few examples, not an exhaustive list.

In conclusion, our main concern is currently the lack of firm, stable and ongoing funding for all official language programs in Canada at the postsecondary level. As I tried very briefly to show earlier, the current formula has a number of perverse effects: difficulty recruiting and retaining both students and teachers, and additional unrecognized duties required of teachers. If linguistic duality forms the very basis of our country and identity, it should be worth the trouble to provide adequate, permanent funding for programs that ensure support for and the development of the official language communities.

I will be pleased to answer your questions. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Allain.

We will now go to Mr. Hopkins.

[Mark Hopkins, Director General, Learning Policy and Planning Directorate, Department of Human Resources and Skills Development]

Thank you for inviting me to come and speak to you this morning. My opening remarks are intended to give you a factual overview of how HRSDC supports postsecondary education. Then I will give offer commentary on some policy areas where HRSDC supports official language minority communities. Finally I will note some actions where HRSDC supports post secondary education and official language minority communities.

First of all, the Government of Canada supports postsecondary education in three broad ways: through transfers to provinces through the Canada Social transfer; through support to institutional research; and through support to students.

Our department's specific support for postsecondary education is targeted directly to learners. That's our role. It facilitates access to PSE and to promote student choice in their selection of PSE institution. The department's support is focused on individuals, not on institutions or provinces.

Let me give you a description of HRSDC's efforts to support postsecondary education.

The Canada student loans program was created in 1964 as a statutory spending program within HRSDC. Its mission is to promote accessibility of post-secondary education for students with demonstrated financial need, by lowering financial barriers through the provision of loans and grants, and to ensure that Canadians have an opportunity to develop the knowledge and skills to participate in the economy and society.

Through the Canada student grant program, numerous grants are available to increase the participation of underrepresented groups in post-secondary education, as well as to encourage parents to start saving early for their children's post-secondary education. Grants are also available for students in a variety of fields who are at different levels in their education.

HRSDC also provides a number of savings incentives to students and their families, which are administered through the Canada education savings program. That program promotes family savings for post-secondary education by encouraging contributions to registered education savings programs.

The department promotes international mobility through its International Academic Mobility Initiative, which supports Canada's higher education community in developing and enhancing international education partnerships.

HRSDC also provides substantial investments in support of adult training and skills upgrading through bilateral agreements with provinces and territories. Many of these investments indirectly benefit post-secondary institutions, as community colleges in particular are providers of much of the training those funding dollars support.

Budget 2007 announced a new Labour Market Architecture acknowledging responsibility of provinces and territories for design and delivery of labour market programming.

While broad and comprehensive, GoC support for postsecondary education respects the provincial/territorial constitutional responsibility for education. Although there is significant national interest in postsecondary education, it is a provincial jurisdiction with clearly articulated provincial responsibilities in the domain of education which place the administration and practices of the postsecondary education under the accountability of provincial governments.

Further, HRSDC is home to a set of programs and activities that have indirect impact on the development of official language minority communities. There is some potential spillover in the area of learning in particular and post-secondary education, where, speaking broadly, between 2008 and 2013 these programs will receive $94 million in funding.

I can give you a list of the broad funding programs. First, a $69 million enabling fund, as it's called, provides resources to strengthen the capacity of networks to mobilize support for community economic development projects; to create partnerships between private, public, and non-profit sectors; and to optimize the financial resources from other levels of government. There is a pilot child care project, which aims to assess the impact of French language preschool programs on linguistic and cultural development. There is a family literacy initiative, which expands access to family literacy in francophone minority communities and in partnership with government agencies and various family literacy communities. In addition, there is a $4 million initiative to build capacity of non-governmental organizations for early childhood development.

I'm describing these not because they bear directly on post-secondary education. Rather, everything we know about post-secondary education points to the importance of early child development, for example, as critical to developing the capacity to participate later in life in post-secondary education.

I'll next look at how our activities as a department affect minority language communities.

One of the most significant areas of activity where HRSDC support for postsecondary education and for official language minority communities comes together is in the area of research.

Through participation in research and the use of survey instruments.... There are a number of instruments here, which I can elaborate on later. They include the Programme for International Student Assessment, the Youth in Transition Survey, and the International Adult Literacy and Skills Survey. Some of the projects are undertaken jointly with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, or OECD.

Many of those projects do oversampling. They take larger samples from minority language community populations, specifically in Canada, in order to get a measure of skill levels and literacy levels among student and adult populations. Our researchers in HRSDC have contributed to greater understanding of official languages proficiency as a result of this research.

In addition, the Canada education savings program has targeted official languages minority communities through a set of outreach activities, with a view to raising the awareness and the use of the Canada education savings grants and the Canada learning bond in francophone minority communities in Ontario.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you this morning.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hopkins.

Now we'll go to the Canadian Association of Second-Language Teachers.

Mr. Erskine, go ahead, please.

[John Erskine, President, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers]

Hello.

I'm going to start and then Nicole will take over.

Thank you for the invitation to speak today.

l am John Erskine, president of the Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers, also known as CASLT. In my regular work l am the French and languages consultant with the Winnipeg School Division and a sessional instructor in initial teacher education for the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface.

CASLT was established by volunteers in 1970. It has grown into a multi-level organization primarily supporting second language teachers, professors preparing future teachers, and second language researchers.

These second languages encompass both official and international languages. We represent over 4,000 members in all provinces and territories. The vast majority of our members are teachers of basic or core French, followed by teachers of French immersion, and then English as a second language in Quebec and New Brunswick.

It is important to note that over 85% of Canadian students learning French learn French as a second language through the basic or core French program in Canada right now. Currently, of those FSL students, a mere 16.5% complete their French high school graduation requirements. Only about 300,000 students are enrolled in French immersion programs.

Our main focus tends to be on supporting teachers and revitalizing core programs, French and English--in French for most of the country and in English for Quebec and New Brunswick.

Changing demographics have affected who and how CASLT supports teachers. We consider the variety of urban and rural contexts--for example, areas with declining enrollments and with a shortage of qualified specialists. It also affects the makeup of the student population within the classroom. We consider the teachers who work with learners who experience their schooling in languages additional to their home language or the dominant language of their community.

CASLT supports the importance of Canada's ethnic, linguistic and cultural diversity. Based on its organizational and financial capability, our association recognizes and promotes excellence in second-language teaching in Canada. The Canadian Association of Second-Language Teachers works in the K-16 school system, that is from kindergarten to the end of high school, and then we are concerned with two components of postsecondary education.

First we'll consider what happens to our second language learners immediately following high school graduation and their ability to access programs and opportunities supporting their interest to utilize and to study in their second official language, whether this occurs at community colleges or within university studies. Next we'll look at what happens within the faculties of education at universities across Canada with the preparation of our future second language teachers.

We will present initiatives spanning the K to 16 spectrum that can be considered by post-secondary institutions and could receive support of the federal government.

Major challenges for the success of second-language teaching and learning have been identified in consultations on linguistic duality and noted in a number of research projects. They include the lack of prestige of second-language programs in the schools, particularly in competition with certain other subjects; a lack of uniformity of language skills levels possible for each type of program and from one field of application to another; as well as a lack of policies for the inclusion and participation of allophones in varied second-language programs.

We have also noted a high referral rate for second-language courses at the secondary level. If students drop their second-language courses before the end of high school, few will be motivated to continue those studies at the postsecondary level.

Actions to be taken could include: explore how school systems value or devalue French within their administration, their policies, and their practices, and identify barriers and potential solutions; explore bilingual identities and the socialization process of second language learners, including new Canadians, in order to bring forward the advantages and usefulness of second language learning, provide arguments, and promote why it matters to be bilingual; and explore how Canada can have a common framework of reference for languages so that there is a common approach to language learning expectations and skills evaluation to be used across the provinces and territories from K to 16 and by employers.

This last suggestion is based on a project that CASLT has facilitated over the last few years. We have supported the adoption of a common framework of reference for languages for Canada, a tool for setting clear standards to be attained at successive stages of language learning and for evaluating outcomes or student proficiency in an internationally comparable manner. We support this idea because currently provincial-territorial FSL programs all have similar achievement goals, but these goals have not been tied to recognized proficiency standards. Moreover, there is no standardized assessment tool to measure to what extent FSL graduates become bilingual. Thus, it has been difficult to report whether our second language programs are achieving the desired results. CASLT also supports the use of a tracking tool or portfolio for students to set goals for their language learning and document their language proficiency or achievement.

Since 2004, CASLT has coordinated interprovincial-territorial dialogue among education authorities at the Council of Ministers of Education, ministries of education, and departments responsible for assessment and evaluation to support this common framework. We are pleased that the CMEC has now accepted the framework for implementation in all the provinces. For example, the Edmonton public school board has incorporated the use of the framework and portfolio in all of its language programs. It has also piloted the use of internationally recognized assessments with its students.

At CASLT, we believe that using an internationally recognized framework will increase the status of the second language programs within the schools, provide credibility to the language programs offered, and increase motivation and retention of students in language studies.

I think I'll pass

to Ms. Thibault.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

All right.

Mr. Thibault, you'll continue. You have about four minutes left.

[Nicole Thibault, Executive Director, Canadian Association of Second Language Teachers]

That's perfect.

I'll introduce myself. I am Nicole Thibault, executive director of the Canadian Association of Second-Language Teachers since 2003. During my career, I've worked as a French immersion teacher and as vice-principal in a number of schools here in Ottawa.

As regards the postsecondary level, two of our partner organizations, Canadian Parents for French and the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, have gathered data on the types of programs and support offered to students interested in pursuing their studies and using their second official language in their college or university programs. They have noted innovative programs that are starting to be developed, and I think we want to encourage the development of other similar programs. In particular, I'm talking about the immersion system offered at the University of Ottawa, which provides a tutoring program for graduates of French immersion programs who are taking courses in the francophone sector with francophones. We've also noted an openness from francophone community colleges to welcoming immersion program graduates.

Further actions to be taken could include exploring the implementation of language entrance requirements or graduation requirements for certain faculty programs; exploring the potential use of technology in the delivery of second language programs to enrich the acquisition and the alternative and added learning opportunities; encouraging exchanges, apprenticeships, co-op programs, and work placements that can be completed in the student's second official language, and then providing an additional linguistic credit for the experience; developing a common research agenda that includes the different social and cultural aspects related to official languages and creating links and networks between researchers and practitioners of both francophone and anglophone sectors; submissions related to language teacher preparation or language teacher education programs within the faculties of education.

There is a shortage of qualified language teachers to deliver quality second language programs, and this has been brought forward across the country. Many school districts have difficulty staffing the FSL positions for speciality areas, such as teaching sciences or math en français. So for immersion, it's very important.

You have to speak French, but you also have to know mathematics.

We also have issues related to rural areas in certain provinces.

CASLT believes that instruction in French as a second language must be presented as a viable career option. New teachers require support through professional development, information sharing and opportunities to enrich their language and cultural skills.

In 2006, CASLT, with two partners—the Canadian Teachers' Federation and the Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers—released a report on FSL teachers' perspectives of their learning and working conditions, and two things of interest came out.

Only 32% of the FSL teacher respondents actually held a specialist certificate—in other words, they actually had specific training to teach French as a second language. Our reality is that if you're in B.C. and you happen to speak German, you're the French teacher.

Almost 40% of FSL teacher respondents reported they considered leaving FSL teaching during the last year. Reasons cited included the marginalization of the FSL program—there's no status for the program, you're the person in the back and you're not important—and the lack of community and collegial support. This fall there was also another report released by CAIT, which looked at new language teachers with less than five years' experience and why they were leaving the profession. The findings were the same. What we're seeing is that we need to promote new teacher support mechanisms, such as mentoring programs.

CASLT has undertaken a study related to the development of a language teacher competence profile and portfolio. The reason is to understand better the basic minimum qualifications regarding pedagogical training, language proficiency, cultural competencies, and subject matter competence to provide guidance to the employers, as well as to monitor and guide teachers in the teacher education programs.

Further actions that could happen include exploring language proficiency and enrichment opportunities for those second language teachers, when they're being trained as well as when they're in the field; exploring teacher exchange opportunities; looking at new teacher support mechanisms and understanding the roles of the job as a teacher and as an FSL specialist; exploring the implementation of this language teacher competence profile or portfolio as a tool that school districts can use to evaluate their current practices and the methods with which they support the FSL teachers and their ongoing professional growth and development; and finally, supporting targeted professional development for practising teachers. We need to keep the linguistic skills up for our teachers over the course of their professional years.

CASLT wishes to recognize the financial support of the federal government through contributions from the Department of Canadian Heritage as part of the support program for English and French second-language programs. This assists us in our work with our members and teaching staff in Canada. Based on this expertise, CASLT is in a position to play a leadership role in certain projects and also in the coordination of projects with a number of participants that have complementary objectives, including federal and national partners. In our view, with respect to education at the provincial level, a dialogue must definitely be established among the provinces so that we can agree on the most effective way to provide further support for linguistic duality and official language learning in Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I thank you, Ms. Thibault.

Mr. D'Amours, go ahead, please.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks to all those here present.

Mr. Hopkins, I listened to your remarks concerning your department. I think it would be worthwhile this morning to listen to the speeches, comments and answers of other people. Mr. Allain, among others, mentioned direct assistance for the translation of documents. He also mentioned assistance for expediting agreements and direct support for postsecondary institutions to promote bilingualism. Your department does not appear to have been very active in those areas. In any case, you didn't convince me of much in that regard. That is why I say it might be worthwhile to take note of what other people will say.

With respect to programs, Mr. Chouinard, I believe that you raised the question of integrating agreements and programs from place to place so that we can monitor them. You also address the issue of the international program. Could you tell us what the good sides of that are? Among other things, are you facing barriers to the advancement of the international program, among other things?

[Yves Chouinard]

First of all, with regard to coordinating the agreements, I believe it was Mr. Allain who raised that subject. What I mentioned concerning international mobility is that Human Resources and Skills Development Canada has an agreement through which funding can be obtained to recruit students who will be able to engage in international mobility.

Prior to 2007, I think there was a program that enabled our students to engage in mobility in Canada. The viewpoint of the colleges with regard to international mobility is that university students very, very often have access to that program, as compared to very few students from the colleges. We think that mobility in Canada, rather than international mobility, should be promoted first of all, in the case of students 19, 20 or 21 years old. We aren't opposed to the international program; we take part in it, but the objective is to enable students to get to know their country better, to acquire second-language skills, skills in different work places. We should have a program that enables our students, at least at the college level, and probably at the university level as well, to go from one province to another and do practicums or study for a semester at another institution, etc., a program that would enable our students to discover Canada before going international. That's not always easy. We have students who have taken part in the international program, and there are challenges. When they've never left home and they find themselves in Niger or Mauritania, it's not easy. I think we should have a program like the one we used to have.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Allain, would you like to talk about the question of coordinating agreements?

[Greg Allain]

Yes, all right. As I pointed out, there appears to be a problem of lack of continuity from one agreement to the next, and the ideal thing would be for the official languages programs to be funded on an ongoing basis. Roads are, and manpower is as well, whereas, if official languages are so important, why are we always forced to come back with five-year agreements, particularly when there are breaks between agreements? If it isn't possible to get that ideal solution, in spite of all of the importance of official languages, there should at least be coordination. I don't know, I'm not in the field of public servants and federal-provincial agreements, but when a five-year agreement is to expire in two years, the work should begin immediately to prepare for the next one and, from the moment one expires, the other should go into effect so that at least there isn't a period of time between the two.

Going back to my example, we have an excellent criminologist in my department. We're going to lose her because there's no budget. The response to the budget application for the criminology program won't be ready for another two years, we're told. I don't necessarily blame the federal government; it seems the province takes a lot of time to prepare its package of applications as well. At least it should be possible to match that. The best, the ideal solution would be to have permanent programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. D'Amours.

We'll continue with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

First of all, Mr. Chairman, I want to bring it to your attention and to that of the colleagues from your party that, following the Quebec-bashing at the last meeting, it would be worthwhile for you to consult page 5 of today's Le Droit. You said, within your party, that English is swept under the rug in Quebec since it isn't taught to children. Here we learn that Quebec City is more bilingual than Ottawa. There may be food for thought here for the people from your party. I want to point that out to you. It's certainly something you'll have to take note of.

That said, ladies and gentlemen, we are here today to examine efforts to promote bilingualism in postsecondary institutions across Canada because we have information that they are lacking, or that there are too few or not enough people capable of speaking both official languages well enough to get jobs in the federal government, for example. It must be said that the federal government isn't doing its job either. When there are Supreme Court judges who aren't bilingual, when we have deputy ministers who aren't required to be bilingual, Canadian embassadors who—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Pardon me, Mr. Nadeau, but Ms. Glover has a point of order.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

With all due respect sir, we wasted a lot of time the last time. The witnesses are here to talk about postsecondary education. I hope we won't waste more time talking about judges. We have to focus on postsecondary education.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Is that a point of order, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I remind committee members that we must focus on the subject under study.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

That's my introduction and it's worth hearing. I hope madam's remarks don't cut into my speaking time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Nadeau, we'll continue.