Official Languages Committee on April 22nd, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

That's right. They're coming to speak to us about linguistic duality in Finland. The Finnish ambassador will also be there. This meeting will take place at the Château Laurier between 11:30 and 1:30 next Thursday.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Will Saku Koivu be there?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

If he speaks one of the two official languages, we can certainly invite him.

Let's move on, thank you very much.

Mr. Nadeau, you have the floor.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I would like to point out that it was Stéphane Dion, when the Liberal Party formed the government, who established the first action plan. This was an initiative aimed at promoting linguistic duality. The first plan contained objectives.

As concerns the second plan, or Dion II or the current Roadmap, whatever you want to call it—as you can see, I am not being partisan—some additions have been made in financial terms, but in other aspects, the plan has taken a beating. The organizations here with us today have been less affected by the question of public funding. That being said, I would still like to point out, as my colleagues did earlier, that consequently the government machinery is not as well equipped to serve the public in the language of its choice. This is all a question of the funds granted to Treasury Board and the Canada School of Public Service that are declining drastically.

Last week we heard from the Commissioner of Official Languages, and I was shocked to learn that he was obliged to dip into his budget envelope to promote official languages to senior government officials. It's absolutely shameful that Canada should still be at that point. If Canadian government officials do not realize that they are obliged to accept the fact that their employees work in French because it is the minority language in their environment, imagine what kind of impression that makes on communities, that don't even have the support of senior officials because they don't understand that the federal government must provide services in the language of the minority. This is a major shortcoming in the Roadmap and it's absurd, at the very least, not to say shameful. It's very important that people understand that.

As concerns consultations, I remember back in the fall of 1987 when the Secretary of State at the time, Lucien Bouchard, met for the first time with all organizations who received funding from Secretary of State—now Canadian Heritage—to hear their opinion. That was a first. Jean-Bernard Lafontaine, whom some of you know, was his political attaché. I participated in this meeting on behalf of the Fédération de la jeunesse canadienne-française. It was the first open consultation with all partners around one table. That's what we're talking about. We're not talking about the little chats you have with Richard Nadeau before our meetings, we're not talking about the time you met with me in my office to discuss your issues, although that was an excellent meeting; we are talking about high-level discussions.

To come back to my primary concern, if I understand correctly, interdepartmental dialogue is substandard, whether or not it is Canadian Heritage that always meets with the French-language minority or English Quebeckers. That is only 1 department out of the 60 federal government departments and agencies. All departments should participate in the initiative launched by Lucien Bouchard—who was a Progressive Conservative at the time—with all the communities, but we don't see this happening anywhere.

Do you think it would be helpful if this plan put forth the idea that the Privy Council Office of the Prime Minister should be responsible for official languages, rather than a department that is the alter ego of the other ones—everyone minds their own business because they are all alter egos—and that senior officials should learn both French and English if they don't already know them? In such a case, you would need to meet with all the departments so they can hear what your expectations are. Do you think that that would be a good idea, the people from Quebec and the francophone and Acadian people? I'm all ears.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Of course. That's what we recommended in our document published last November 25. We recommended that very thing—that there be one overall coordinator. That's what's missing. The Minister of Canadian Heritage himself says that he cannot give instructions to the ministers of Immigration or Justice, for example. The ministers cannot tell each other what to do. That's why we recommend that there be one overall coordinator, a form of governance, instead of letting each department decide for itself how it will deal with official languages. This is the law; it must be given the necessary emphasis. As concerns governance, we recommend that this responsibility be given to the Privy Council.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much for that.

That completes our third round. We could now go to a fourth round, and normally, we would begin with the government side.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I have a point to clarify. I thought we would have time to look after committee business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We have already settled the majority of the issues, as a matter of fact. However, we can come back to that if needed, following the appearance of our witness.

There are currently three speakers for a fourth and final round.

Questions or comments?

Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Ms. Kenny, you state that the responsibility should be given to the Prime Minister, to the Privy Council Office. Currently, Canadian Heritage is responsible for enforcing the act. Now, although it is a department on the same footing as the others, would it be possible for it to give direction to the other departments?

Why do you want the overall coordinator to take precedence over all the other departments? Couldn't one department be chosen to give direction to the other departments?

[Marie-France Kenny]

Mr. Moore told us himself that he did not have the authority to give any kind of orders to other ministers. It's simply not done. For example, if there are five vice-presidents in a company, none of them can give orders to any of the others. The other vice-presidents will not necessarily listen to him.

[Suzanne Bossé]

You must also recall that the act stipulates that Canadian Heritage, Justice Canada and Treasury Board are all on the same footing. So we cannot ask any one of these departments to coordinate an agreement or be the supreme authority in that regard.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

So you would be in agreement if we used the funding already allocated to official languages to create a position ensuring that the act is enforced?

[Suzanne Bossé]

As a matter of fact, that position used to exist.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Yes, such a position did exist, but it was modified under the new structure.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

So you would be in agreement with that, even if we used the same amounts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Généreux.

We will now continue with Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will continue in the same vein. Is it true that one of the first decisions made by the Harper government was to eliminate the Official Languages Branch of Intergovernmental Affairs within the Privy Council Office and create the Official Languages Secretariat within the Department of Canadian Heritage?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I couldn't tell you whether that was this government's first decision.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

It was one of the first decisions it made, early in its term of office.

[Marie-France Kenny]

That decision was indeed made by the government, but I cannot tell you when.

[Suzanne Bossé]

Very early on in its term.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

While we're at it, according to the action plan, the Minister responsible for Official Languages had the right to create an ad hoc cabinet committee and convene meetings. Under the Roadmap, or since 2006, do you know whether an ad hoc cabinet committee on official languages has been created and if so, whether any meetings have been convened?

[Suzanne Bossé]

Under the Horizontal Management Framework, according to the logical model that is put forward, there is a committee of assistant deputy ministers...

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I am not referring to deputy ministers, I am referring to ministers.

[Suzanne Bossé]

I could not tell you whether such a committee has been convened or not.