Official Languages Committee on June 1st, 2010

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

If I correctly understood Mr. Yengayenge, the work situation was hard for your parents, for all three of you, when they arrived in Canada.

[Andrea Santana]

Yes.

[Kelly Bararu]

Yes.

[Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam]

It's only been a year, but yes.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Listening to Ms. Desautels earlier, then you, as a parent, and you, the students, I wondered whether the work situation of your parents affected you in your everyday life.

I understand how students can mainly speak English in the halls. Does that affect your integration? We've talked a lot about integration: that of students, that of parents. Does that affect you in your integration as a newcomer in a community where your mother tongue is far from the first language spoken? Does it affect you personally or has it not had any influence?

[Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam]

I would say it affects us. When I was in Cameroon, I spoke French. My parents worked, my father was a teacher, a teacher at a lycée—the equivalent of high school in the French school system. My mother was a primary school teacher.

When we arrived in Canada, my father was asked for his marks from “terminale”—that's the last year of high school in Cameroon. He's been a teacher for 25 years. He wonders how he's going to be able to prove it, so he can enter a program to become a teacher again here. So he'll be going to Cameroon soon, and he wonders whether he'll be coming back here because it's difficult.

We arrived a year ago, and he hasn't worked the entire year. We've lived off resources from Cameroon. We had a better life there than here. He really wonders whether he will come back here because it's not really worth it to come back here and to do nothing, or to wind up with a job that doesn't correspond to his skills. He prefers to go back and live and work there in order to support us from there.

Something should be done about recognizing our parents' credentials and work experience.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I don't know how much time I have left.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have one minute left.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Before even speaking French in the halls, I think problem number 1 starts with the family. When I was listening to all three of you earlier, and you too, Mr. Apollinaire—please allow me to call you that; it's easier to pronounce—my fear was that the promised land would become a real hell for some families.

Mr. Apollinaire, earlier you mentioned that parents were forced to work odd jobs and work 70 hours a week so they could perhaps support their families. That raises question marks in our minds.

In my constituency, I helped advance a project called Carrefour d'immigration rurale, the purpose of which is to promote the integration of francophone newcomers into rural areas. From what you're saying, the urban reality is the same in Ontario, and perhaps even worse, but I can understand that there are similarities between the two.

At some point, I would like to come back to you, Mr. Apollinaire, although I know my time is almost up. In fact, you have to start at square one. If we can't help you integrate—let's forget the language aspect—if we can't give you the tools for successful integration, you definitely won't be able to have a good life here and that will have an impact, psychological or otherwise, on the children you bring with you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Apollinaire, you may have the opportunity to answer that in the next rounds.

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

Ms. Guay.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks to my colleague from Acadia.

I'm a Quebecker and it affects me to see how hard it is for you, as francophones, to integrate here. It's definitely very different in Quebec. However, we have the same problem regarding the immigration of qualified people.

In my constituency, there's a couple who arrived from Iran and who are both nuclear medicine experts—that's not nothing. I helped them complete their forms to enter Quebec. These people had to work in the emergency ward at the hospital in my constituency for two years before they could work in nuclear medicine. So we lost two good years with these people who could immediately have operated in their field upon arrival. They spoke very good French. They spoke a number of languages, four or five. So you're entirely right, Mr. Apollinaire, that we have to try to solve this problem as soon as possible.

You young people, I find you quite fantastic.

Andrea, I sense you're very emotional, but that comes from your Latin American blood, as a Brazilian.

I hope you can continue in French. I can understand the problems in the halls of the school. I can understand how that goes; I know it's hard to integrate. First, you come from another country. Second, you try to make friends, and there is rejection.

As francophones, you have chosen to learn French. Are there any initiatives at school for anglophones to make an effort to learn French, so they can mix with you? Why is it that it would be solely up to you to do it? I know you're in the minority, but it might be interesting for them to learn another language as well. English isn't the only language.

Are any efforts being made in that direction at the school? Ms. Lanteigne could answer me on that point, but I'd like to know the students' opinions as well.

[Francine Lanteigne]

As we're at a francophone school; the students who attend it all speak French, with a few exceptions. In that case, the students are allophones.

Yes, all kinds of activities are planned. The services provided for the reception of newly arrived students include intensive support, partial support and tutoring. So, at the same time, there's the opportunity to earn credits, intensively and partially integrated, for one, two, three or four courses. The students who take those courses earn their credits. Andrea, for example, was very proud, as she said yesterday, that she had met the requirements for her high school diploma in four years, including the language requirements, to earn her high school diploma in four years.

This isn't necessarily our biggest priority, but the first purpose of our funding is to fund teachers who will handle the adjustment, teach the curriculum and ensure that the language and cultural support adjustment is done. That's where Ms. Desautels' budget comes into play. There is a protocol, and the board is working very hard to make our efforts more visible. We have activities, but we carry them out on a volunteer basis. It's not because we're good, but because we lack staff.

Have I answered your question?

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes, that answers it.

[Andrea Santana]

That's why the students prefer to speak English. Speaking English is like a fashion. The students speak French. Some perhaps don't practise it often and forget words, but they all know how to speak French. However, when it comes to speaking, it's fashion that takes over.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That means they probably have to speak English at home.

[A voice]

Not necessarily.

[Andrea Santana]

It's also possible that they speak another language.

[Thérèse Desautels]

I won't examine the conscience of the City of Ottawa, but it should not be forgotten that we're in Ottawa, a bilingual city on paper, but not in actual fact. When our young people leave here, it's all well and good to teach them French, but they're going to be served in English. I challenge you to find a French film in Ottawa. You have to go to Gatineau.

Don't forget that we have newcomers who barely have the resources to clothe and feed themselves. I would be surprised if they spent $20 to go see a movie, or $40 to go see a show. I think the money is used to meet essential needs.

Don't forget we're in Ottawa. Even though I speak French to the person who has to serve me, the answer I get is, “I don't speak French.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Guay.

We'll continue with Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

I also congratulate the principal, Mr. Charette, the teachers and students.

It's obvious the students are studying well here since they speak as quickly as Ms. Lanteigne, their teacher.

It's good that there are teachers from New Brunswick. I'm a bit disappointed there aren't any from British Columbia, but perhaps that will be the case next time.

The students' stories are very interesting. I thank you for them. I have three children who attend a French immersion school in British Columbia, in West Vancouver, in the constituency I represent.

We often talk about nation-building in this committee. We are individuals, but together we are the Canadian nation. What effect does it have on non-francophones to hear you speak French? We just said we have to speak English from time to time. However, in British Columbia, in Alberta, in Ottawa, which are cities where many people don't speak French, what effect does the use of French have? I think our nation has a lot of values, and most of the people here today have this value of saving the French language and contributing to its vitality. How does your use of French and your love for the French language influence other people who don't speak French? I think that will influence the next generations in the Canadian nation.

Do the students want to answer?

[Kelly Bararu]

When people from British Columbia hear us speak French, it may encourage them to try to understand French, since, as you said, we are one nation. We really have to be able to understand each other in English and in French. However, that will take time, and, frankly, without lying, I believe that French is harder to learn than English.

[Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam]

I must say we're lucky to be able to speak French—and also to be able to speak French and English, but especially to speak good French, since it's difficult.

When I go to the store, I ask people whether they speak French, and I often see they look downcast, sorry. They would like to be able to speak French, but they don't have that opportunity. They would like to, but they can't. They don't have the time, or it's too late for them to learn French.

I think some anglophones would really like to speak French and be bilingual because they're affected by seeing someone speak French and English. Anglophones could also learn French well and become bilingual. If we write a report, we'll see that there are more francophones who speak English than anglophones who speak French.

[Andrea Santana]

Sometimes the francophones at my work speak to me in English, even though I know they speak French. I can hear the accent and know whether they're anglophone or francophone. They never ask me if I speak French, and I can't say anything because I don't want to repeat myself. So I continue in English, but I understand that they would feel better if they could speak French. And yet they don't ask me whether I speak French. I find that really sad because I could help them more in French. They choose to speak English, thinking that everyone speaks English. A number of people speak French at my work. Sometimes they know some words and can express themselves. It's just that people don't think to ask me if I speak French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Be quick; I'll adjust my watch.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

That's very interesting, and I really understand these things you're concerned about. The Canadian government is investing a lot in the recognition of foreign credentials, so I believe that will improve.

How do you think it affects anglophones, those who don't speak French, when you speak French? Is that something that will build the Canadian nation? This is a young nation, and we need your help in order to enhance the vitality—