Evidence of meeting #36 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bilingual.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Luc Portelance  President, Canada Border Services Agency
Camille Therriault-Power  Vice-President, Human Resources Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Pierre Sabourin  Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
William Victor Baker  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety
Daniel Sansfaçon  Director, Policy, Research and Evaluation Division, National Crime Prevention Centre and Official Languages Co-champion, Department of Public Safety
Denis Desharnais  Director General, Human Resources, Department of Public Safety

9:10 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

Yes, job fairs were held in 2006, 2007 and 2008 specifically to recruit bilingual people. As regards exchanges with minority communities, that's an aspect that will have to be developed. I spoke with my colleague from Canadian Heritage to see how we could address that issue. Yes, there are avenues that we can take, but I can't—

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

When you meet with the deputy ministers in your committees, do you really talk about official languages, about the problems you're facing in that regard?

9:15 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

That depends what meetings you mean.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Any meetings. You meet with the deputy ministers.

9:15 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

I'm a member of the public service renewal committee. Recruitment and official languages are definitely a part of public service renewal. That's definitely quite an important topic.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you very much, Mr. Godin. We'll continue with Mr. Rickford.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks as well to all the witnesses. Mr. Portelance, I congratulate you on your appointment as president of the Canada Border Services Agency.

My questions will be along the same lines as those of my colleague Mrs. Zarac. Earlier she asked some questions about southern Ontario. I note in the commissioner's report: "...the Office of the Commissioner notes that there have been issues at the Canada Border Services Agency's southern Ontario crossings for years, in part because the agency has not developed a formal action plan to improve the quality of its French-language services in this region."

Mr. Portelance, you said in your speech that you have an action plan. On page 15 of his report, the commissioner notes another concern. He says: "...the Agency has not set up oversight or follow-up mechanisms in order to evaluate the official languages performance at each border crossing."

I have two questions. What oversight or follow-up mechanisms are you putting in place to enable you to assess the official languages performance of each border crossing? Can you give us some details on your action plan?

9:15 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

I'm going to say a few words about that. Perhaps you can ask my colleague Mr. Sabourin, who's responsible for all of Canada's border crossings, to provide you with more details.

The commissioner is right in saying that we had very few oversight and follow-up mechanisms regarding regional official languages activities. In an organization such as ours, which is highly decentralized, the regions knew they had to provide the service and knew what crossings were designated, etc. We often relied on complaints. We knew at the time that there was a problem, and people on site were in contact with the directors general, and so on.

The oversight and follow-up mechanisms consist mainly in establishing a plan for each crossing. Of the 158 crossings, fewer than 10 are really key crossings, that is to say where there are challenges.

We also have to have key objectives, such as the percentage of bilingual officers required in Windsor to ensure that service meets obligations. In each region, we try to tell the difference between challenges, which may be in the areas of training or recruitment, exchanges with local communities, schools and so on. Every director general will have to develop his or her own plan. On that point, I must say that there are no internal surveys.

We obviously rely on complaints the public files with the commissioner. We have to develop our own survey capacity not only with regard to official languages, but also for the service we offer to our clients.

With your permission, I'll ask Mr. Sabourin to say more about this.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON

Mr. Sabourin, you have one minute to tell us more about that.

9:20 a.m.

Pierre Sabourin Vice-President, Operations Branch, Canada Border Services Agency

The plans Mr. Portelance referred to will be specific to regions and crossings. That's an important point; that is to say that we will be able to address specific aspects or specific challenges.

For performance measurement and follow-up, we want to establish a framework in which we measure the degree to which we are meeting our obligations. The commissioner described our obligations very well; they are very, very clear. In some locations, we're meeting our obligations better than in others, and that's why we need local plans.

First, with regard to ports, signage has to be bilingual. We're generally meeting that obligation very well. Generally speaking, signage is bilingual.

Second, the booths where bilingual service is offered must also be clearly identified. We're generally doing very well in that regard. If you go to Ottawa International Airport, all the booths now indicate that bilingual services are offered. In the case of Windsor, as well, two of the 23 booths that we have very clearly indicate that bilingual services are offered.

Third—and this is the toughest one—there must be a bilingual officer at a bilingual booth. I must ensure that schedules are designed so that a bilingual officer is there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. A booth where bilingual services are offered needs, on average, seven to nine bilingual employees. That gives you an idea of what we have to do.

I gave you the example of Windsor. Five million travellers go through there every year, and I'm not including commercial traffic; I'm just talking about travellers. During the meeting we're holding today, the Border Services Agency will receive an average of 10,000 persons at the border. During our hour-long meeting, 10,000 people will arrive. You can imagine that—to answer Mrs. Zarac—if there isn't a bilingual officer in Windsor, the error rate can be high, and so the complaint rate could be as well. So we have to have very rigorous staffing plans to ensure we place bilingual officers in the booths that have signs indicating that bilingual services are offered so as to avoid this kind of situation that you very clearly described.

Then there is active offer. We have to say "Hello! Bonjour!" So we will have to measure to determine whether that's being done, and services have to be equivalent in English and in French. We want the strategy that has been used to date, which is to send people, francophones, to see a second person, to be cancelled so that service is equivalent.

What we also want to implement are short-term control measures so that we are able to know when non-bilingual people are on the job in bilingual booths. As a result, we would know about a problem before any complaints were filed. Let's suppose that, at Lansdowne, people are returning from vacation in August, when people are returning to Montreal, and a non-bilingual officer is posted at a booth where bilingual services are offered. That will cause us some problems. So we'll be able to avoid this kind of situation. The fact nevertheless remains that we absolutely have to find bilingual people.

I'm going to give you an example. In the case of Windsor, as Mr. Portelance explained to you, the francophone community is very small. We have to try to attract people from Gatineau or from French-speaking Ontario, Franco-Ontarians, or from the Quebec region, who can come and work in that region and provide us with additional capacity. The fact is that we currently don't have enough officers to provide the service. The local community will be able to help us, but we have to go beyond that if we want to meet our official languages obligations.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Rickford.

We'll start our second round.

Mrs. Zarac, once again it's your turn.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Portelance, you said in your presentation that the agency has to administer 90 acts. I suppose that, when a new employee is hired, he or she has to receive training in order to be well aware of the acts he or she must administer. I would like to know what position training occupies and the importance of bilingualism in that training.

9:25 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

This is an important part. First, our officers are all trained at the college in Rigaud and have the option of being trained in English or in French. We offer training in both languages. Active offer is part of the training of all officers. I would also say to you, madam, that our employees are placed in imperative staffing positions, that is to say that, when we hire them, we know where they will be going and what linguistic profile they have to meet. We don't really offer language training; people have those skills when they're hired. Hence Mr. Sabourin's comment that people who are already bilingual have to be hired for places like Windsor and so on. That's our way of proceeding—

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Pardon me for interrupting, but my time is limited.

They really have to understand this act, just as they have to understand the acts they must administer. This isn't just a matter of saying "Hello! Bonjour!"

9:25 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

The answer is yes, madam.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

So is the training adequate? You can confirm that for me?

9:25 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

Absolutely.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Perfect.

You said you were a member of the public service renewal committee. I would like to raise two points on that subject. Is the emphasis placed on bilingualism at the time of hiring? I think that's important.

In his report, the commissioner often comes back to the desire to do something. In my opinion, if you want to ensure that bilingual services are offered, you have to send the message—before hiring—that the agency wants to hire bilingual people. I can understand that that's difficult in certain cases, except that training can be given.

It seems to me that it's nevertheless an environment where the vocabulary is constantly the same. So even if the individual isn't completely bilingual, he or she could meet the requirements of the job by taking adequate training. Do your non-bilingual employees regularly receive... They shouldn't be given the choice.

I read that they will have access to training if they request it. Shouldn't that be part of a detailed plan for your employees?

9:25 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

First, for the moment, there is training that I would say is adequate. However, in the context of our action plan, we're taking a look at how we can raise the level of basic training.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

Mr. Portelance, isn't it true that training is currently available upon request?

9:25 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

If you're talking about active offer and official languages obligations, people are trained at the initial training point. They know that this is an obligation.

There are two factors. First, we have to recruit people. I'm going to cite an example. Recruiting francophones and transferring them to a place like Windsor... Windsor isn't a bilingual region. So, to meet service obligations, francophones who go to work in Windsor don't necessarily have a right to work in the language of their choice. Sometimes it's easy to say that we're going to recruit bilingual people who will be working in Lansdowne, Windsor or Toronto, but those aren't bilingual regions. Consequently, those people aren't necessarily interested.

As to the question whether a certain base can be taught, I would say that we could say yes, but the work of a border services officer is interview work. The officer must be able to have quite a full conversation. As for administration of the Immigration Act, particularly the eligibility component, most Canadians definitely believe that boils down to a few quite simple questions to determine what individuals are bringing with them and so on. However, in the context of a fairly serious interview, there is the contact with the person. So the officer cannot be limited to a few sentences. Either people can do their job or they can't.

To answer your question, I would say that, in the action plan, we will definitely be examining the issue of training in Rigaud to determine whether we can increase not only the knowledge, but also the capacity to function.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mrs. Zarac. This time, you took back the time you credited to me earlier.

Mr. Portelance, you say you've been president since November. Before that, you were senior vice-president at the same agency. Had you already been there for some time?

9:30 a.m.

President, Canada Border Services Agency

Luc Portelance

Yes, absolutely, for two years.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Excellent. Thank you.

We'll now continue with Mr. Nadeau.

9:30 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

To begin with, I'm going to give Mr. Laforest the floor.