Official Languages Committee on Dec. 7th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Murphy.

Now we'll continue with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Desharnais, when you write to your superiors, do you do it in French or in English?

[Denis Desharnais, Director General, Human Resources, Department of Public Safety]

I use both languages.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

And you, Mr. Sansfaçon?

[Daniel Sansfaçon]

Same thing.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

So you write the same letter in English and French and you send it to your supervisors, do you? I just want to understand.

[Daniel Sansfaçon]

To be more specific, I use the language more appropriate to the case. It will be English or French, but rarely both at the same time.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I'm asking you the question quite honestly: why don't you use just French? Knowing that you're francophones, I assume French is your first language?

[Daniel Sansfaçon]

I don't systematically use French all the time because there are circumstances that simply lend themselves more to the direct use of English, given the nature of the subject that addressed, for example.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

To a supervisor? Because I'm talking about mail sent to a supervisor. You know you have a right to write to a supervisor in French only.

I don't know your department very well. However, I do know another department where an individual I know as well stopped writing to her supervisors in French because people "looked at her strange". The text was sent for translation and came back translated but didn't exactly express the meaning she had wanted to convey. Do you have that difficulty?

[Daniel Sansfaçon]

Do I have that difficulty?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Yes.

[Daniel Sansfaçon]

No, I don't have that difficulty.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

And you, Mr. Desharnais?

[Denis Desharnais]

Occasionally, when we have a text translated, the thematic line of the text may get lost. But we nevertheless revise it to ensure that the message is conveyed so that... so the theme is maintained.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

If I understand correctly, you have supervisors who are unable to read your text as one should be able to do if one is really bilingual, as a result of which they have to have it translated.

[Denis Desharnais]

I wouldn't say that's the case. As a senior executive, I have employees who sometimes write me texts in the language of their choice. Sometimes it's necessary for them to do it in the other language as well. That's one way of doing things. We nevertheless encourage people to communicate in the language of their choice. Sometimes it may get lost in the translation.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

The fact remains that 35% of your employees don't feel comfortable writing in the language of their choice.

Although I haven't done any scientific studies on this, I'll give you my opinion: I would have expected a candid answer to the effect that you feel comfortable writing in French because you know the message will be sent and there will be no problems at the end of the line.

However, that's not the case because sometimes you feel an obligation—from what I understand—to write in English to be sure it's understood at the other end of the tunnel.

[Denis Desharnais]

I wouldn't say it's at that point. I communicate in a certain language depending on the circumstances, as does my colleague, Mr. Sansfaçon. Sometimes I feel more comfortable writing in English; sometimes I feel more comfortable writing in French. I have no doubt that my supervisors understand, whether I write one way or another. They even encourage me to do so.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Let's talk about the relationship with supervisors. In the case of speaking, communicating, when an instruction or a direction is given or a correction must be made to certain aspects—that's part of everyday life, regardless of your occupation—28% of employees in your department nevertheless don't feel entirely comfortable speaking the language of their choice with their supervisors.

Can you explain to me what you are going to do so that, one day at your department, 100% of francophones will feel comfortable speaking French, even to the most senior authorities, or 100% of anglophones feel comfortable speaking English to the most senior authorities? Everyone must feel comfortable using the language of his or her choice. It should not be forgotten that the act has been around for 40 years. I'm listening.

[Denis Desharnais]

Mr. Chairman, first of all, that's their right. As deputy minister, I regularly encourage the use of both official languages. We are quite capable of working in both languages. We recently did something in particular: we changed the profile of our EX minus 1 supervisors because most people report to a supervisor of that level. They previously had a BBB profile and we changed that to a CBC profile because, based on my experience in the Government of Canada, a BBB profile is not at all enough to manage human resources.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you very much.

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chairman?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes, thanks to our new procedure, you have two minutes left, Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Then I'm going to ask you a question about active offer. Let's say a citizen has to do business with your department at one level or another. Only 48% of your employees are able to provide active offer, that is one employee in two. I find that mark poor. One employee in two is not high.

You can tell me that's their right, but it's also their obligation to be able to respond in the citizen's language. If they can't do so personally, they have to refer them—not three months later or with the RCMP's handcuffs on their wrists, as we have seen—to services offering the language of their choice.

What are you doing to enable citizens doing business with the Department of Public Security to do so safely?

[William Victor Baker]

I'd like to make a few comments, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, once again, we encourage that in the action plan. That's frankly a challenge. We encourage people to respond to the public's needs in the language of—