Official Languages Committee on March 24th, 2015

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Partially, but I will give an opportunity to the other witnesses to answer it. I will come back to it.

Mr. Corbineau, you have the floor.

[Gaël Corbineau]

Thank you, Mr. Gourde

I don't have the exact numbers, but I can say that, after having worked since 2008 in community immigration and francophone immigration in Newfoundland and Labrador, the economy was very good in terms of jobs. Also, most francophone newcomers came for economic purposes, as far as I know. I said that the economy was very good and I hope that it will come back. This year is a bit unique.

Most immigrants came to our province because they had found a job here before they arrived. We have very few francophone refugees per year. You can count them on the fingers of one hand, not more. To my knowledge, family class immigration is relatively low. It exists, but it is marginal. I am inclined to say that, for the most part, they stay here. Clearly, a good economy is very important. I think that factor contributes to the retention of immigrants.

In the third part of your question, you asked whether immigrants move closer to the community. I would say that it is a real challenge. If those people find a job with our immigration network, with Destination Canada for example—which is an employment forum organized every year by the Canadian embassies in Paris and Brussels—they often stay. If they come with children, we will be able to retain them in our francophone schools and put them in touch with our francophone associations. Things go well afterwards. However, it is often difficult to keep newcomers who do not go through our network and who find jobs in other ways, directly with companies or public job banks. It is a real challenge to keep them and to make them come to our communities or institutions.

In my previous presentation, I mentioned the number of francophone immigrants with French as their first language, their first official language. Sometimes, it is not their first language. They speak another language in their country of origin. It is very important to attract them to our organizations and communities, and to retain them. That is particularly important in rural areas. Two children can make a huge difference in a school. They can help save a classroom or open a second one. That is extremely important for us. It is a considerable challenge to be well acquainted with immigrants in the economic class and to retain them in our organizations.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you.

[François Boileau]

Mr. Gourde, if I may add, employment is clearly the most important factor for newcomers, whether they come here directly or whether they come from Quebec. They don't always come with the desire to enrich Ontario's minority community or to help Ontario meet a target set at 5%. It is great if they do, but this shows that the more targeted the recruitment strategy is—meaning working together with francophone communities—the more specific it is and the more we will be able to retain those people, those newcomers in the communities where they will be integrated.

By the same token, once they are here, the more we educate them on the opportunities for their families and for themselves to enjoy a life in French in our communities, the easier their integration will be, including their integration into Ontario's society in general, which is anglophone. That might seem ironic, but it's the truth: the more easily they integrate into the francophone community, the easier it will be for them to integrate into the entire community and to know the ins and outs of everything the society has to offer, because that can also be provided in French. That therefore makes better citizens and helps their families feel welcome and integrated here. As a result, it will be easier to have a stronger community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Boileau and Mr. Hominuk.

Ms. St-Denis, you have the floor.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you all for being here.

Listening to you is a bit discouraging. As a francophone, I am a little discouraged. I am not quite sure; you have some nice principles and recommendations.

Mr. Corbineau, you appeared before this committee in 2012, at which time you said that Destination Canada was helping bring immigrants here, but there was no structure to integrate them.

Have things improved in the last three years?

[Gaël Corbineau]

Over the past three years, little has changed. Our francophone immigration networks still do not have authorization to provide direct services, not in my area anyway. Some benefit from some provincial funding, but not us.

There is also the problem that many economic class immigrants arrive with temporary visas—and therefore do not have permanent visas—while our funding is only for permanent visas. So that is still a real challenge.

I repeat what I said in 2012, we attract them, we reach out to them in Europe, but when they get off the plane on Canadian soil, we do not have the right to look after them because they don't have permanent visas. It is a little ironic. That is when they most need us and that is the most critical time for us to retain them, but officially, we don't have the right to provide services to them. That is true until they obtain permanent visas, which takes place after one year or a year and a half, but they no longer need us and we may well have lost them in the meantime.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Are you not discouraged by the situation?

[Gaël Corbineau]

We cannot be.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

We cannot be.

In your provinces, how does the francophone community see immigrants? Immigrants come to work and get jobs. How does the community accept them as such? Are they welcomed? Are they included?

How is that perceived in Acadia and in Newfoundland?

[Anne Hébert]

We have conducted some quite in-depth surveys to get an idea of that situation. In New Brunswick, there was a lot of talk about the unemployment rate. We might think that people see immigrants as competition for jobs, but that is not at all the case. Businesses don't really think about immigration as the first solution to their workforce problem.

However, when we ask them specifically whether they would consider hiring francophone immigrants to work in their companies and whether they have seen many francophone immigrants in their regions, the response is very positive. In fact, over 90% of people are very open to that when we ask them the question.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Is that actually the case?

[Anne Hébert]

It is the case, but the instinct is not there. We survey our entrepreneurs every year and, as I said earlier, the workforce question has been a top concern for over 10 years, but the question on the efforts put into immigration and access has never been on the list of concerns. We need to ask them the question. We therefore need to work with the business community to make them see that it is a solution.

Furthermore, in the past, companies had some not-so-good experiences, not necessarily with the immigrants, but with the immigration process that has since changed a great deal. At any rate, it is easier today. However, entrepreneurs are scared of those administrative formalities that are making the process long and difficult. If they need someone, they need them right away.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

And what about Ontario?

[Ferdinand Kashama, Vice-President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario]

Thank you for giving me the floor.

I will answer by relying on the information at our disposal, but also on my personal experience.

In Quebec, immigration is organized. Quebec even goes to the source to select people, but as soon as those people come here, integrating them is a problem. We say that they are not integrated but we continue to look for others. There are therefore gaps in the integration of immigrants.

They also come to Ontario. Some find jobs here, but francophone organizations don't have the resources needed to retain them in francophone communities, which results in a transfer. In fact, given that the francophone community does not have sufficient structure to welcome newcomers, they try to integrate into the anglophone community. It seems that the problem is coming up more and more.

The AFO has worked hard to try to help immigrants and to redirect them to the existing services. The efforts are considerable, but the means hardly match. That is what I wanted to add.

[Peter Hominuk]

Because we have three networks rather than a provincial structure in Ontario, we think that there should be a representative organization for the francophonie, an entity or provincial structure that can plan and coordinate, so that there is still a provincial strategy. That was one of the commissioners' recommendations.

We think that our organization could play that role. The government could also choose a different organization. At any rate, the lack of provincial coordination has created some holes. Although the three regions are managing fine, the lack of provincial coordination will cause harm to the community in the long term, I think.

We see that, because of the scope of immigration, Ontario has experienced a significant demographic change. The central and southwestern region, which, among the three regions was the third largest in terms of population, will, in the next few years, become the region with the most francophones in Ontario.

That places a lot of pressure on community groups. There has not always been community infrastructure but we can see now that groups are trying to organize themselves. The funding to support them is not necessarily available. The province contributes through schools, but there are other services that go hand in hand with that. So we are talking about better federal-provincial coordination because the massive influx of people creates health care and social services needs. Although we are talking about provincial jurisdictions, support is needed, especially for French-language services, to be able to set up the services.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, thank you.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Williamson.

Excuse me, Mr. Chisu. Go ahead.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Thank you very much for your presentation.

I'll be speaking in the other official language of Canada, which is English, because it's much easier for me.

Mr. Boileau, how many francophone immigrants settle in Ontario each year? Do you have an idea? Is this number stable? Is it decreasing or declining? What cities welcome the highest number of francophone immigrants?

[François Boileau]

Thank you very much for your question.

It's difficult to answer this question with precision because of the lack of data. It's easier to know who came through the normal channels directly into Ontario, but for those who came from Quebec, for instance, it's less easy to know exactly what the current percentage is. It's difficult.

We know that it's increasing, as Peter Hominuk said earlier, in London, Hamilton, and Toronto. They are the fastest-growing populations of francophones in Ontario, and actually in the country. Ottawa is not lagging far behind, and is close. Toronto, London, and Hamilton are the main points, but the problem remains that it's only 2%. That we know. Francophones are only 2% compared to the rest of the population that immigrates to Canada.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

I was just asking this question because in my riding of Pickering—Scarborough, we just inaugurated two French schools. One is an elementary French school, a Catholic school, and the other one is basically a college in Pickering, which goes to grade 12. This means that in my area the French language and the number of people who would like to go to school in French is increasing significantly.

[François Boileau]

Absolutely. I was there at the inauguration in Pickering. It's a marvellous school.

It's a great opportunity for francophones, but they have to know that there are services, and that's the main problem, the main issue. As Ferdinand very eloquently stated earlier, we have difficulties organizing ourselves to make sure that people know that there is a francophone community. They come here for employment, but beyond that it's difficult for them to know about services in French available from the federal and provincial government and that it's possible to send their kids to French school. If they knew that in advance, they would plan in advance, but once the kids are already in school in September, it's difficult to take them away and put them into French schools. So, this lack of knowledge is [Inaudible--Editor] to a strong integration within our francophone communities.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

However, another issue that I've found is that the Durham region, for example, is not necessarily offering services in both languages, French and English. I don't know about other regions. I think Peel and Toronto are offering bilingual services, but there other regions in the 905 area code. Durham might be resistant to doing so because they say it costs a lot of money to offer services in French. I'm encouraging them to offer services in French. I have the Franco-Ontarian flag in my office. That is quite important, because it's very important to speak both official languages.

[François Boileau]

Good for you.

Durham is doing this. We're making strong efforts with the Durham municipal township to alleviate—

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

There is a kind of resistance there.

[François Boileau]

—the misconception that it would cost more money. It doesn't, because it doesn't fall back on them. The French Language Services Act in Ontario does not apply to municipalities. It applies only to government institutions. It applies to municipalities only if the municipality acts on behalf of the provincial government.