Official Languages Committee on May 2nd, 2016

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand what you mean. This looks like no one revised the text.

I have other questions.

When we met, you spoke to me about the 2014-2015 annual report. Recommendation 2, as you no doubt remember, states that “In 2013, Canada's Minister of Citizenship and Immigration announced funding from the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018”. In the same recommendation, still referring to citizenship and immigration, you suggest the need to “make the necessary modifications so that the funding process for priority research projects identified by the English-speaking communities of Quebec is flexible, transparent and responsive to their needs ». You indicated that there would be a report on the measures taken in this regard by May 31, 2016.

There are anglophone minorities in my riding, as there are in the chair's riding. Do you know what the status of those recommendations is at this time? Do you have any comments on this?

[Graham Fraser]

After my annual report was tabled, I received an enormous number of comments from the media who were surprised that I had dared to talk about anglophone immigration issues in Quebec. Even if it was quite limited, that recommendation concerning the need for research and coordination was made based on firm knowledge regarding the responsibility Quebec has regarding immigration, and the somewhat limited responsibility of the federal government vis-à-vis immigration in Quebec.

That being said, I have no information to give you about the follow-up given to that recommendation.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I see. You don't know yet what is going to happen with that.

Recommendation 3 in your report reads as follows:

The Commissioner of Official Languages recommends that the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration: 1. clearly identify the measures he intends to take to enhance the vitality of the English-speaking communities of Quebec through immigration; 2. engage with the Government of Quebec with respect to enhancing the vitality of these communities [...]

What has been done to follow up on that recommendation?

[Graham Fraser]

Unless I am mistaken, the minister had some talks with his Quebec counterpart, Ms. Weil. I have not yet received an official response to that recommendation. Consequently I cannot give you a detailed reply at this time.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Fine. You cannot enlighten us on that point.

[Graham Fraser]

No. I am making a note of your question and I will find out.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It is important, since the deadline was May 31, 2016. We need answers. May 31 is in 29 days.

Thank you, Mr. Fraser.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe.

[Graham Fraser]

Generally speaking, the follow-ups are not implemented before the deadlines.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Well, for my part, I always check to see where things are at before the deadline, to ensure that it will be respected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe.

Mr. Arseneault, you have the floor.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser and all of your team, for being here with us.

I am the one who has the job of trying to fill Mr. Mauril Bélanger's very large shoes during his absences from the House.

Since 2010 you have been involved in a long dispute with CBC/Radio-Canada concerning its obligations to official language minority communities. CBC/Radio-Canada has refused to co-operate and to recognize its programming responsibility. It has denied that it comes under your jurisdiction regarding official languages. Our public broadcaster has even denied that you are entitled to investigate and follow up on complaints sent to your office regarding its programming.

In another connection, francophones throughout the country report that Radio-Canada is less present on the ground in francophone communities outside Quebec—what a surprise—at large-scale events, among other things. Both in Montreal and Toronto, decision makers seem less inclined to produce, co-produce or even to record key cultural happenings in the Canadian francophonie.

Mr. Fraser, to what extent do you think that upper management at CBC/Radio-Canada is aware of its obligations vis-à-vis francophone communities outside Quebec, and to what extent does it understand and respect them?

[Graham Fraser]

I already spoke about the lawsuit we brought about this. We have been having discussions to try to agree on a memorandum of understanding allowing us to investigate complaints. I have always said that I was not interested in intervening in matters of programming pure and simple. When I was a journalist, I did not want to manage a newsroom, and I absolutely do not want to do so as Commissioner of Official Languages. I want to make that distinction clear, one which may not always be entirely believed or understood by CBC/Radio-Canada.

I think one of the positive impacts of our legal proceedings has been to remind Radio-Canada of the importance of holding consultations in the communities before they make changes. There is no doubt that there is a certain “Toronto-centrism” in Toronto and a “Montreal-centrism” in Montreal.

For instance, when members of the RCMP were murdered in Moncton, there was a crisis. And yet RDI did not interrupt its coverage of the Charbonneau Commission to cover these events. Complaints were not submitted to our office, but to the CBC/Radio-Canada ombudsman. This is the type of journalistic and programming decision where the CBC/Radio-Canada ombudsman does indeed have a very important role to play.

However, after there were radical cuts made to all of Windsor's local programming, I received some 860 complaints. This was not a journalistic decision, but an administrative one. When CBC/Radio-Canada did not recognize my jurisdiction, that was the type of situation where I felt I had an obligation to litigate, and that is what I did.

All this to say that in the face of these pressures and the complaints from minority communities, one becomes more and more aware of the issues. For instance, RDI recently broadcast a special two-hour program from Moncton where people from francophone minority communities throughout Canada got to speak. My provincial colleagues, such as Ms. d'Entremont from New Brunswick and Mr. Boileau from Ontario, and I, had the opportunity to take part in this program. Of course, there is more awareness than there used to be, but it is long-term work to really raise people's awareness as to the reality of the francophone minority from one end of the country to the other.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fraser, dear guests, thank you very much for being here today. We appreciate your presence greatly.

Mr. Fraser, I'd like to suggest you approach my questions from a different angle. Your ten-year mandate will soon be over, and I would like to give you the opportunity to tell us about the challenges you faced during your last ten years as commissionner.

You mentioned that the person who will replace you should have certain skills, among those that that person should be comfortable with web 2.0. I imagine that you see yourself as being in the web 1.0 era, and that your predecessor was in the 0.0 era.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I think that is important. Clearly the challenges we face today are different from those you faced over the past ten years. I'd like to hear your comments on this.

What were the biggest challenges you faced, especially with regard to the Canadian francophonie in all of its aspects?

[Graham Fraser]

One of the challenges I encountered in minority communities was visibility. I discovered that the francophone majority in Quebec did not understand or recognize clearly that there are one million francophones throughout the country who have schools, universities, radio and television stations, newspapers, community centres and annual or seasonal festivals. The decision by the States-General of French Canada in 1967 to recognize Quebec as the main centre of the francophonie in Canada seemed to create this deeply rooted impression that all of the others had died or disappeared, and they were never thought of again. There is a problem in Quebec with regard to recognizing this reality.

There is also a challenge when it comes to recognizing the reality of anglophone communities in Quebec. There is a sort of erroneous historical impression that the anglophone communities of Quebec are made up of rich landowners and are the owners of large corporations who live in Westmount and do not speak French. In fact, the statistics show that outside of Montreal, anglophones in communities all over Quebec are less prosperous and less educated than francophones, and have higher unemployment and poverty levels than francophones. They have exactly the same problems accessing government services in English as do francophone minorities elsewhere.

Anglophone and francophone linguistic communities both face extremely different but real challenges. People often do not understand their issues. I have greatly appreciated the opportunity this work has given me to learn more about the very different realities faced by the francophone communities in every corner of the country, and the anglophone communities throughout Quebec.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

You spoke earlier about something that is extremely important, and which you in fact referred to during your visit to my office, and that is the individualism fostered by the new media, the Internet and all the new apps on our phones. You said that this does not create a communication space, but is a means of communication. Your observation is very important, because the commissioner who will replace you is going to have to deal with that.

[Graham Fraser]

Precisely. In my annual report I include a letter to my successor. I make a distinction between the linguistic spaces where the minority language can be seen, heard, and spoken, for instance community spaces like schools and other public places, and linguistic networks that allow you to apply for a passport or a pension, to obtain information from the government using the Internet, to purchase a plane ticket or other things from a kiosk in an airport. These networks are very important and helpful, but they do not do much to enhance the vitality of a community. Using them is a very individual activity, whereas the support of a linguistic space that uses signs and announcements enhances the visibility of the minority language and the vitality of the community.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

With your permission, I am going to give the floor to another speaker now. You will probably have the opportunity to come back to this topic.

Mr. Dan Vandal, you have the floor.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

First of all, thank you very much for being here with us, together with your team. Thank you also for all the good work you have done over the past ten years.

I am going to follow up on the same topic as Mr. Généreux. In looking to the future, and at the whole situation, what should the priorities be for your office—which will no longer be your office, in five months—over the next five to ten years? What is your overall viewpoint on that?

[Graham Fraser]

I think there are two or three important points to consider.

In 2018, it will be 30 years since the Official Languages Act was reviewed or amended in any significant way. In 2019, it will have been in effect for 50 years; it has been in effect since 1969. It may thus be time, for my successor and the government, to review the act, given that in 1969, the Internet had not even been thought of. All data was recorded on paper. Even when I was appointed, Facebook and Twitter had just been invented. They were not tools the government used to function and communicate. In 2017, we will not only be celebrating the 150th anniversary of Confederation, but also that of bijuralism in our country. There will be a conference, in March I believe, which we are jointly organizing with the Canadian Bar Association, and which will mark the introduction of our two legal systems in Canada, the civil law and common law.

And then there are all the impacts of the technological era to consider; there is no set time frame for that turning point. There is no point at which we will be able to say it is over, that the change has been made and that we are now living in a new era. Things evolve month to month. Even when I was a journalist—I changed professions 10 years ago—I noticed that every time a commission of inquiry on telecommunications was held by the government, the changes that were suggested became obsolete before the recommendations were even drafted or published.

I see that the technological changes are happening so quickly that we cannot even imagine a day when we will have arrived at some digital Eden, nor believe that that day will ever come. We are living in a time of constant change. We have to ask ourselves how that change can be used to foster official language minority communities in Canada, rather than diminishing or marginalizing them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

With your permission, Mr. Fraser, I am going to give the floor to Mr. Samson.