So the danger is imminent.
Evidence of meeting #120 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was power.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #120 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was power.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Lawyer, Power Law, As an Individual
The answer is yes.
The Canadian government's lawyers follow the instructions they receive. It's up to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Ms. Wilson-Raybould, to instruct them on the official language issues those cases raise. It's not up to me to do that.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Two weeks ago, Ms. Joly reported to this committee that she had said in cabinet—if I'm not mistaken—that she didn't necessarily agree with the BC judge's reasoning. Is that consistent with what you suggest Ms. Wilson-Raybould should tell her lawyers?
Lawyer, Power Law, As an Individual
On the one hand, the commissioner is independent, and rightly so. Until it is proven otherwise, that independence, which is important, must be respected.
On the other hand, I have given you a list of tangible actions that the government could take other than by legislative means, and that could yield immediate results.
In response to your specific question, that judgment does indeed have consequences, although it's only one judgment among many, from various sources, on which the Federal Court might rely. The Federal Court of Appeal will have to clarify the issue at some point, but, in the meantime, the minister could ask her lawyers not to advance certain arguments.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Thank you, Mr. Clarke
Mr. Power, I would like you to clarify a point for us.
At one point, during the Stéphane Dion era, the Privy Council administered the official languages file in a political manner. Would there be any reason to return to that? How can that be done in the context of a renewal of the act? How does one go about imposing a superior political will on everyone, including the Treasury Board, which is responsible for enforcing directives? We can see that the official languages file is often shunted from one minister to another.
Lawyer, Power Law, As an Individual
Mr. Chair, I think Mr. Dion did a spectacular job on the official languages file when he was responsible for it. You can think whatever you want about Mr. Dion on other issues, but he did an absolutely remarkable job on official languages.
If I understand correctly, however, his success depended more particularly on his privileged relationship with the prime minister of the time. That was one of the reasons, but not the only one, why I cited Senator Pierre De Bané in my presentation on the subject of Gérard Pelletier's privileged relationship with the prime minister of that time.
The official languages file should not depend on good relations between key ministers and the prime minister. Sometimes that works well, as in Mr. Pelletier's time and that of Mr. Dion, but sometimes it works very poorly. The communities need certainty, which also benefits the Government of Canada and its institutions. That's why, in my professional opinion, a central agency, the Treasury Board in this instance, should be empowered and given a mandate.
Liberal
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
I am going to share that time with my friend Mr. Rioux.
I'd like to ask a question about the decision rendered by Judge Gascon of the Federal Court. Hasn't an appeal been filed from that decision?
Lawyer, Power Law, As an Individual
Yes, an appeal has been filed, and it's up to the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique to file a brief as the appellant.
In the interests of full disclosure, I must tell you that we are the lawyers for the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique. Yes, an appeal proceeding is under way.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
I imagine that, under the normal procedure, an appeal may be filed and a decision rendered long before the Official Languages Act is amended.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
What do you think would be the worst case and best case scenarios resulting from that appeal judgment? That's a hypothetical question, and I know lawyers hate them.
Lawyer, Power Law, As an Individual
They either love them or hate them.
Regardless of the decision of the Federal Court of Appeal, judges, by definition, cannot rewrite the act, which is a good thing. Even if the Federal Court of Appeal were to correct certain inconsistencies in the act, the judges could not rewrite it and should not be able to do so. That isn't their role; it's yours. That's why, regardless of the decision rendered, the process you undertake and the one the Senate has been pursuing for 18 months now are so important.
On the other hand, sir, that process must yield a tangible result, that is to say, a new act.
Liberal
René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you. Now I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Rioux.
Saint-Jean, Lib.
Thank you.
Going back to the early childhood issue, we were told out west that there was no money for early childhood transfers. As a result, four out of five children in British Columbia can't attend a French-language early childhood centre. I believe early childhood is the crucial time for maintaining a child's natural language.
Can that situation be corrected?
Lawyer, Power Law, As an Individual
Yes. On the one hand, Minister Duclos really should be applauded for his actions on early childhood. Very significant funding is being transferred to the provinces and territories. It's not enough, but it's definitely progress.
On the other hand, those linguistic provisions that are included in the agreements are deficient and made in piecemeal fashion. There will be one in an agreement negotiated by Mr. Duclos and another in an agreement negotiated by Ms. Joly, and there will be a third one here or there. They will have to be standardized. That should be done. The Official Languages Act should clearly prescribe the linguistic minimum that should be included in every federal-provincial agreement. That specifically is the wording that was proposed by the Conseil des écoles fransaskoises on page 18 of its brief.
The proportional nature of the process is a concept that you find in other fields such as health, for example. It's widely done, but it's done in piecemeal fashion. When things go well—this goes somewhat to the chair's question—it's a matter of chance, but when they go badly, it's because the structure is defective. Please amend the legal architecture.
I want to thank Mr. Bossé for reminding me of one point. Sometimes things go well, and that's a matter of chance. The agreement between the federal government and the provinces on cultural infrastructure is important. Infrastructure means money. However, this agreement includes no linguistic clause. The federal government is enormous. A federal institution can't always be expected to consult the others. That's why such important matters must go through a central organization. That's done with regard to pay equity and racial equality as well as in other important fields. There are federal standards. The same should be done for official languages.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
Before the meeting ends, the clerk has some information to pass on to you.
The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Christine Holke
I simply wanted to remind you that the report on nurses will be tabled in the House on Wednesday. I just received a call from the Press Gallery. I was told the press conference could not be held in the foyer as a result of the economic statement.
The Clerk
So it will be at 3:45 p.m. instead of 3:30, and it will be in the Charles Lynch Room. I'll be sending you an amended notice.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis
In closing, I would like to thank Messrs. Mark Power and Darius Bossé, as well as Ms. Perri Ravon, for their testimony. It was clear and truly instructive for all members of the committee. Thank you very much.