Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2018

[Carol Jolin]

We have not heard much about that meeting which was held a week ago. We met Mr. Ford and Ms. Mulroney last Thursday. Ms. Mulroney said she was very surprised to hear about the possibility of funding from the federal government in the previous 24 hours.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Really!

[Carol Jolin]

I very much doubt that she had spoken about it with Ms. Joly. At any rate, this is what we heard. Obviously, we were very surprised by her response. At that point in time, if it was indeed true, I don't think that they had spoken about funding for the Université de l'Ontario français.

It seems, given Ms. Mulroney's statements during our meeting with Mr. Ford, that she completely endorses her government's position which is based on economic constraints. She even declared that the Université de l'Ontario français will not be opening its doors September 1st, 2020 as long as the province's finances are not in a better state.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I do not want to get involved in provincial politics, but I can honestly say that the funds necessary for the Ontario Office of the French Language Services Commissioner and the Université de l'Ontario français are peanuts, small potatoes. We are talking about $80 million over eight years; it's not as if it's just for the first year. I am the one saying this, not you. I do not want to put you in that position.

Based on what we have heard, the Ontario government will not be making any request to the federal government because, according to the Ontario government, the federal government has no money. Given that the government of Ontario will not be making a request to the federal government, it would be opportune for the federal government to ask to meet the Minister for Education and offer to fund the university. Have I understood things correctly?

[Carol Jolin]

There are two things to remember here.

Firstly, it was just recently that we received assurances from the federal government that it would provide funding for the first four years. We stated this in the letter that we sent to Ms. Mulroney, of which you have a copy. We have not had any response, but I believe she is looking at the possibility. As we wait to hear the position of the Ontario government, we would like to see the federal government step up to the plate and show leadership. We would like it to contact Ms. Mulroney as well as Ms. Fullerton, the Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities. We have to get people talking. What is crucial right now is that government stakeholders communicate.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

If each party is waiting for the other one to make the first move, nothing will happen. We have to show leadership at some point, as you say. May the one who is the most willing make the first steps and ask the other party to meet and discuss what is possible to accomplish together. Am I right?

[Carol Jolin]

That is it precisely.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

All right.

As I have a little time left, I would like to talk about the Ontario Office of the French Language Services Commissioner which has been in existence for 10 years now. The commissioner testified before the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs of Ontario. I believe it was yesterday or a few days before, very recently at any rate. Have you seen his testimony? How did you feel afterwards?

[Carol Jolin]

We were not able to watch all of the testimony because we ourselves had to make a presentation to the same committee at the end of the afternoon and were in the middle of intense preparations. We do, however, know the commissioner's position.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

How did your testimony before that committee go?

[Carol Jolin]

It went well. We were able to present the information on the office of the commissioner that we wanted to. First of all, the government wishes to put all of the commissioner's office under the ombudsman. If the original goal was to save money, it's a mistake, because the whole of the commissioner's office will be transferred to the ombudsman.

As to the responsibilities and the operations of each agent, we are not in agreement.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

There is the question of independence.

[Carol Jolin]

You cannot be independent if you work under someone. That is what we are contesting.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

The ombudsman's role and that of the commissioner are not the same either.

[Carol Jolin]

Exactly. Even if the commissioner had the same responsibilities, he would still have to answer to the ombudsman. We believe that this would have an effect on his independence. That is why at tabs 5, 6 and 7 of our document, we are asking for schedule 20 to be withdrawn because it deals with the commissioner's role. This is what we presented yesterday.

We also submitted a document on the Université de l'Ontario français. We spoke about the need for a French-language university in the central southwestern region in order to not only meet a pressing need from young high school graduates in that region, but also to offer our young people from all of Ontario and Canada the possibility to come and study in French in Toronto.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Choquette.

It is now Mr. Samson's turn.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Jolin, Mr. Hominuk, thank you for coming today. We know that it was perhaps difficult to find the time to come and testify and we are grateful for your presence.

You have shown exceptional leadership on many issues. I would just like to remind people that the protest had been prepared within a month. We should thank all Canadian francophones for their support, but also people from Quebec, because it is rare, and I don't mean to insult anyone, that Quebec supports minority francophones. I am very pleased to see the support and it will perhaps set a precedent that will lead to a wonderful future. I would also like to congratulate you on all the work that has been accomplished previously. We tend to forget, because we are mostly thinking about Black Thursday, but before 2012, there were complaints, work was done and an expert committee was set up. You are the one behind all those efforts and have been for a long time and I do thank you.

The second thing I would like to say is that I was not expecting Ontario, such a well-to-do province, to behave this way. The analogy that I like to use in certain instances, as is the case today, is that when there's less water in the lake, the animals gather around the lake look at each other differently. Governments sometimes do not show leadership or comprehension when it comes to their obligations towards the two founding peoples. When the economy is not doing as well as they would like, they make cuts that hurt minorities. This is exactly what has happened here and proves the lack of leadership on this issue.

I would also like to say something else. I went to school in English, from kindergarten to grade 12, because there were no French schools. Afterwards, however, I was able to study in French at the Université Sainte-Anne in Nova Scotia and at the Université de Moncton. If these two institutions had not existed, I would probably not have done my post-secondary education in French. I would therefore not have reached the goals I had set for myself, and let's not forget that I have many others to reach!

This is why I come back to the needs of students in Ontario and in the rest of Canada who will choose to study there. We are not seeking here to know if whether or not we should have a French-language university, but rather to respond to a need, a willingness. Look at school boards in Ontario, where school populations have grown exponentially, to the point that schools are being built every year. If this French-language university does not come into existence, students will go to English-language universities, they will be assimilated and they will not speak French, they will not contribute to the communities' vitality and the francophones will suffer another blow. This goes beyond the simple opening of a French-language university of Ontario. This is why this issue is so important and the refusal to go forward with this university could cause irreparable harm.

The former federal government abolished the Court Challenges Program which caused a whole lot of problems. Moreover, the census does not ask the right questions to determine the right to education in the minority language set out in section 23(b) of the Charter. Your movement is very important.

My introduction always takes longer than my questions. I am now going to ask you three questions in a row, and you may answer them in the order you wish.

First of all, you said that you have not received any response to your letter. But are there other ways to continue to exercise pressure?

Secondly, you spoke about the government's next steps, but what will be your next steps and those of the community that is following you in Canada right now?

Thirdly, you spoke of the federal government's leadership, but should you also to continue to lobby the Ontario government so that it may sit at the same table as the federal government and thereby ensure that your efforts are rewarded?

Over to you.

[Carol Jolin]

Thank you for those three questions.

I would also like to thank you for what you said about the Assemblée de la francophonie's commitment. We have a fantastic team which works with Mr. Hominuk and myself. We have finally been able to reap the rewards of what we have sown over the past few years, which is to say that we have coordinating committees set up everywhere in the province which get in touch with the whole community. What's more, if we were not here, we would be travelling to see the members of our coordinating committees.

Our community organizations all use the same document, which is the strategic community plan for French-speaking Ontario. This makes it easier for us, after Black Thursday, to communicate with our member organizations, of which we have about 160, both institutional and community-based, and to move forward quickly to mobilize people, which allowed us to organize protests on December 1st.

To answer your first question, we have not had any other direct contact with Ms. Mulroney since last Thursday, when we met her and Mr. Ford. However, our political analyst is in constant communication with Ms. Mulroney's team to continue our exchanges. We have always said that we are open to dialogue and this openness is also evident on Ms. Mulroney's side. We want to continue to talk about this file.

Today, we sent a letter which brings a clear solution that would allow the establishment of the Université de l'Ontario français. It is a win-win solution for the federal government and Ontario. We hope to hear back about our proposal soon.

As to the next steps, I mentioned that this afternoon, we will be holding a provincial meeting with all the organizations that are members of the Association canadienne-française de l'Ontario, the ACFO, which has offices in all Ontario regions. We will be talking about strategy. We will give some information because the Assemblée de la francophonie is an organization that works from the bottom towards the top. We consult at the grass-roots level and then, by going through our coordinating committees that will be meeting Wednesday, Thursday and at the beginning of next week in Ottawa, we will ask our members for feedback. We will also ask them to be vocal in their interactions with their MLA's to see what can be done. These are our short-term objectives.

The comments and feedback that we will get from our members will inform the direction that we will take, not only over the next weeks but also the coming months. I would like the problem to be solved as quickly as possible, but I also know that this could take time. We are ready to act quickly, but if it takes longer than we think, we will continue to exert pressure on the provincial government so that we can get results on these two issues.

As for federal leadership, I believe that the federal government can get the ball rolling, if I may say it that way, and by that token put pressure on the provincial government so that it deals with these issues, changes stance and gets down to brass tacks. This is extremely important for us. The provincial government parties have already supported our efforts. Last week, all parties adopted a motion to that end. We're not favouring one party over another, we want to work to preserve linguistic duality in the country. We have here an excellent opportunity to go forward with an initiative that is of the utmost importance for the francophone community in Ontario.

I would like to thank everyone who has been supporting us in the province and elsewhere in Canada and even abroad. This issue has gone beyond the Office of the French Language Services Commissioner and the Université de l'Ontario français. This has been seen and continues to be seen as an attack on the francophonie and francophone rights. This is why people in other provinces have been so supportive, be they francophones, francophiles or anglophones.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you.

Mr. Hominuk, do you want to add anything?

[Peter Hominuk, Executive Director, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario]

I would just like to add that, over the past few weeks, we have built a structure to allow us to evaluate our options, not only on the legal and political level, but also on the community mobilization and communication level. We intend to maintain pressure on the provincial government through all these means.

I also want to tell you that our mailing lists now include 15,000 names. People who have joined the resistance movement will receive a request from the president to call their member of provincial Parliament.

We really intend to put a lot of pressure on the provincial government. When people talk directly to members of Parliament, it has an effect. We continue to call on the public and the Franco-Ontarian community to ensure that citizens speak to their member of Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hominuk.

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

We will continue with Mr. Arseneault.

[Carol Jolin]

I would like to add a bit of information.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Go ahead.

[Carol Jolin]

Since Mr. Ford's personal cellphone number seems to be everywhere, I can tell you that he has been inundated with calls from Franco-Ontarians and francophiles. We heard about it because people around us were personally called by Mr. Ford. They had the opportunity to discuss two issues of concern to us and the position of the francophone community on these issues.

So, I wouldn't want to have to look at the whole list of messages that Mr. Ford has received since Black Thursday; it must be quite overwhelming.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Jolin.

Thank you very much, Mr. Samson.

Mr. Arseneault from New Brunswick, you have the floor for four minutes.