Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Pursuant to Standing Order 108, we will continue our study on the state of Canada's Francophonie.

During our first hour, we will have the pleasure of hearing Mr. Carol Jolin and Mr. Peter Hominuk, who are respectively the President and the Executive Director of the AFO, the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario. During our second hour, we will hear Mr. Normand Labrie and Ms. Florence Ngenzebuhoro from the Université de l'Ontario français.

Welcome, Mr. Jolin and Mr. Hominuk.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Chair, someone has just taken a photo. Unless I'm mistaken, it is usually forbidden to take photographs during a meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

It is indeed forbidden to take photographs once the meeting has started. Thank you for reminding us.

As usual, we will give the witnesses ten minutes or so to make an opening statement. Afterwards, we will have a round of questions and comments from our colleagues.

Mr. Jolin, you have the floor.

[Carol Jolin, President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, esteemed members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, thank you for inviting me here as you carry out your study on the state of Canada's Francophonie.

This past November 15 has been called “Black Thursday” and with reason. In its fall economic outlook, the provincial government attacked the francophonie by proposing to withdraw funding from the Université de l'Ontario français. It also proposes to eliminate the French Languages Services Commission and transfer the part of the Commissioner's mandate that deals with complaints to the provincial ombudsman.

These two decisions have led to our province's biggest linguistic crisis since they tried to shut down the Montfort hospital in 1997.

The only positive outcome of these ill-informed decisions is that it has more than ever united francophones and francophiles from coast to coast.

Over the course of the previous weekend, almost 15,000 people, francophones and anglophones alike, took to the streets in Ontario to make two points.

Firstly, they came together to celebrate with pride our French language, our culture and our heritage.

Secondly, they took to the streets to tell the provincial government that these two institutions are necessary to our survival and that we need them to protect and promote our language and culture.

We all wished to make sure that the premier was left with no doubt as to the essential role of these two institutions.

I would like to thank the people who came out. They were loud but peaceful. Our community was able to present a positive image when all eyes in the province, in the country and even in the world were on us.

It is not only the vast majority of francophones and anglophones that support us. The five federal political parties are with us, as well as the opposition parties in the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, the Government of Quebec, and many representatives of the big media outlets, such as The Sun, Le Devoir, La Presse, Le Droit, The Ottawa Citizen, The Globe and Mail, andThe Toronto Star, to name but a few, who have supported us in their editorials and columns. We are extremely grateful for this wave of solidarity that has come from all corners of the country.

The Government of Ontario has based its decision to attack two Franco-Ontarian institutions on economic reasons. This is why the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario was so thrilled to see that the Government of Canada is willing to foot the bill for at least 50% of the costs of setting up the Université de l'Ontario français.

We would like to thank all federal political parties for their leadership and their willingness to find a solution. We are nearly there.

In order to avoid irreparable damage to the Franco-Ontarian community by pushing back the timeframe in which the institution would welcome its first students, which is set for September 2020, I sent a letter to the Premier of Ontario and to the Minister for Francophone Affairs. You will receive a copy of this letter. It contains all the necessary information so that the Government of Ontario may present a request for funding to Canada at its earliest convenience.

The Government of Ontario therefore has all it needs to quickly make a request for funding to the Government of Canada. The Government of Canada has this letter and therefore has what is required to get the ball rolling.

The Franco-Ontarian and francophile communities need a Franco-Ontarian university which is managed by and for francophones in a region that has the least amount of post-secondary programs in French but which is where those communities are growing exponentially.

Let me be clear: the Université de l'Ontario français exists. It hasn't had an easy time of it up until now. You will find the university's history at tab 1 in the document that we have distributed. This historical context clearly shows how much a French-language university is needed in Toronto.

The university has had its own enabling legislation since last year which was passed unanimously by the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. You can read the legislation at tab 2. You will see that the institution has all the attributes of a real university: a senate, a board, a chancellor, a president, and so on.

The University has already published its first annual report on its operations which you will find at tab 3. I encourage you to read it.

Finally, tab 4 contains answers to certain basic questions that will help dismiss some myths and stereotypes.

We must keep in mind the following: the Université de l'Ontario français exists. It already has quite a few employees and it will open its doors to its first students in September 2020. Unfortunately, the Government of Ontario wishes to eliminate this institution. The AFO is requesting that all federal parties act, and act quickly, to save it.

As well, Madame Joly said that she would do anything in her power to support Franco-Ontarians. The Government of Canada's position is clear. It is ready to be a partner with the Government of Ontario by funding at least half of the university's opening costs over the next eight years. In the past, the Government of Canada provided the significant funding needed to launch la Cité collégiale and Collège Boréal. The Government of Canada has the programs in place to support a project like the university. The province has simply to submit the project, and the federal government can help fund at least 50%, if not much more.

L'AFO asks that the federal government show leadership at this time of national crisis and provide, without delay, the funding required for l'Université de l'Ontario français to continue its operations for the next few years, even if that means that over the life of a five- or eight-year federal-provincial agreement, 100% of the funding in the first few years comes solely from Ottawa.

Thank you very much for listening. The Ontario francophonie and the official languages minority communities need you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much for your presentation, Mr. Jolin.

Without further ado, we will start a round of questions.

Mr. Blaney, over to you.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Welcome, Mr. Jolin and Mr. Hominuk, to the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Thank you so much for coming this morning.

As you know, this is the committee's first meeting on the issue that we spoke of i.e., the promotion and preservation of institutions within the Franco-Ontarian linguistic community. I would like to reassure you, as I did Sunday in Quebec City, that for us, and I dare say for all parliamentarians in the House of Commons, the promotion of linguistic duality and the preservation of institutions for linguistic communities is essential and is at the very heart of the Canadian identity.

I had a conversation with Mr. Dupuis of the FCFA, the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada. He made me realize that in Quebec, the state works to preserve our culture and our language, but in other provinces, it is important to have strong institutions. The Official Languages Act sets out the federal government's responsibilities for promoting our official languages.

Mr. Jolin, I would like to commend the constructive approach that you have always used, especially over the two past weeks. It is interesting to see that you have presented us with a letter which contains a solution for the very institution which is at the heart of our deliberations, the Université de l'Ontario français. This university would be alongside the University of Ottawa and the Université de Hearst.

We will perhaps talk about it in more detail during the second hour, but could you explain to me where exactly the project of establishing a Franco-Ontarian university is at? More specifically, what would be the federal government's contribution?

You spoke of possibilities which are most interesting. In the end, it all comes down to funding. You have proposed a solution in order to get the Université de l'Ontario français up and running over the next four years without dipping into Ontario's budget. We know that Ontario is faced with tremendous difficulties. Could you talk about funding for the project?

[Carol Jolin]

First of all, I would like to praise the openness shown by the Honourable Mélanie Joly, who promptly said that the federal government was ready to come on board. We know that the federal government had made funding available to the Collège Boréal and La Cité collégiale for up to of 50% of their operational costs.

Given the minister's openness, the federal government wouldn't extend funding for the university's first four years of existence per se, because the university already exists, but for its operational costs. That would give the provincial government time to put its finances in order. We know that one of the promises made by the current government is that it would get to grips with the province's finances. That period of four years would give the province time to realize its goals.

When we met Mr. Ford, he said that once the province's finances are in order, it will be able to fund the Université de l'Ontario français. Those first four years would allow the Ontario government to put its financial house in order. It could then take over funding for the four following years. We could set up a partnership and really, it's just a question of making decisions on how to go about it.

I welcome the federal government's openness to this possible solution. We have a solution. We have to get the various stakeholders together and set up a plan to get the ball rolling. Now that we know the position of each level of government, the solution is before us and it's doable. We are working to get down to the nitty-gritty in order to keep things moving along. We want the university it to be ready to welcome its first students on December 1, 2020. I would be happy to invite you to their graduation ceremony a few years from now.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I have a more specific question for you. To your knowledge, would the federal funds come from OLEP, the Official Languages in Education Program, or would they come from the Action Plan for Official Languages 2018-2023: Investing in our future? Have you received any information on this?

[Carol Jolin]

I do not have any information. I'm more concerned about getting the actual funding. However, I do not believe it would come from OLEP. There are more funds in the programs for official languages. I'm not sure I can answer your question.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Right. We can come back to it later.

The project costs for the Université de l'Ontario français are set at $78 million over the next eight years. In the past, as you have stated, the federal government has contributed up to half of the costs of similar projects, as it did for the Collège Boréal and La Cité collégiale. We could probably also include the Université de Moncton or other programs.

You said that there has been an openness on the part of the federal government to finance the first four years of operation. If we divide $78 million by two, we get $39 million. The Government of Ontario would not have to shell out any money over the first four years and the newly born university could continue to operate. Is this correct?

[Carol Jolin]

Yes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Have you worked on designing the programs that will be offered at this university?

[Carol Jolin]

No. Mr. Labrie, who is at the heart of it all, will make a presentation and will be happy to talk to you about the programs. He is much better placed than I to analyze the programs and the partnerships than the university is establishing to meet the needs of the market.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney and Mr. Jolin.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Jolin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mrs. Fortier, you have the floor.

[Mona Fortier, Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You all know that I am a Franco-Ontarian and proud to be a Franco-Ontarian MP. What we experienced last Saturday is still humming in the hearts of all those who participated in one of the rallies.

We are still hearing about it today. This morning, I spoke with people who said they were surprised but also very happy to see the wave of solidarity throughout the country. It really is incredible. I would like to congratulate all those who came together Saturday and obviously this momentum has to continue.

We are talking about a French-language university, and you have already eloquently explained that it is needed in Ontario. As to the federal government's contribution, we have to make sure that we remind ourselves of the following: we cannot let the provincial governments, especially Ontario, shirk their responsibilities. It's too easy to cut the provinces some slack, especially when it comes to public finances. The federal government has to ensure that its public finances are in order and has a certain responsibility. I think it has shown itself open to working with the Government of Ontario and looking at ways of keeping the project going. I do think however, that we have to keep these considerations in mind.

Mr. Jolin, you did not say much about the elimination of the Ontario Office of the French Language Services Commissioner. I would like to know what your thoughts are. Abandoning the project of the Université de l'Ontario français really is a huge step backward, but so is eliminating the Commissioner's office.

Can you talk to us a bit about that?

[Carol Jolin]

I can talk about it very briefly.

Bill 57 is still before the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. What we are requesting is simply the withdrawal, no more no less, of schedule 20, which would reinstate the Commissioner's office.

Under the current bill, the commissioner would answer to the Ontario Ombudsman. It would be a loss of independence for the commissioner as well as a loss of linguistic rights in Ontario and a blow to the way the French Language Services Act is enforced. It would a huge blow.

The Université de l'Ontario français is an extremely important issue for us. We are testifying before a standing committee of the federal government to make people understand what all this means for the Franco-Ontarian community, and that it is indeed necessary to establish the Université de l'Ontario français and the reasons why we must go ahead with the project to be able to meet pressing needs in the Toronto region.

[Mona Fortier]

When we talk about Canadian values, we know very well that official languages and linguistic duality are part of our DNA. Canada must not stand down; rather, it should go forward and strengthen what we already have. I applauded Minister Joly when she said last Saturday that we should never go backwards and that we should make every effort to go forward. That is something that all of us around this table are doing. We are seeking to strengthen laws and consolidate the rights of minority francophones.

I know that we are going through a period of crisis and obviously we have to look at the problem of the Université de l'Ontario français and the Office of the French Language Services Commissioner, but nonetheless, I would like to know if there are other measures that we should be taking, whether at the federal or provincial level, to reinforce minority rights.

Do you have any ideas?

[Carol Jolin]

The Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario has already spoken about incorporating francophone rights in the Canadian Constitution. This was a priority for us, but our priorities have changed somewhat since November 15. That is one aspect.

As to what the federal government can do, many things have been said and much support has been given, for example in terms of funding and developing creativity. That's great, but the federal government could do even more. It could exercise its leadership in Ontario so that the Université de l'Ontario français may see the light of day.

Does the federal government have to wait for all of the province's requests? I think that it now has the possibility to exercise its leadership; it doesn't have to wait. It can make the first overtures towards the province. As our federal leaders, you are mandated to take on the issue of linguistic duality and to respond when there is pressing need, and the pressing need is certainly to have a French-language university in Toronto.

Each time that we set this project back, irreparable damage is caused to the young people who graduate from high school and don't really have any options in the Toronto region if they want to study at a French-language university. We know that assimilation rates are between 60% and 70% in the central southwestern region of the province.

I'm here today to ask the federal government to show leadership, to take the bull by the horns and to take on the file. The federal government could then put pressure on the provincial government.

[Mona Fortier]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mrs. Fortier.

Over to you, Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you both for coming today.

The first think that I would like to do is to congratulate you for taking a stand, Mr. Jolin.

[Carol Jolin]

Thank you.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I would also like to congratulate you for fighting the good fight. You are currently leading the way for all of the Canadian francophonie and for all defenders of official languages in Canada. They were even anglophones from Quebec at your side Saturday at the rally that we both went to. It was a beautiful moment and an auspicious start. The fight is not over, far from it, but I can tell you that you set a good example. We are fighting also and we are proud to promote our beautiful language and our wonderful cultural identity.

I would like to go back to what you just said about leadership. To my knowledge, Ms. Joly had a meeting with Ms. Mulroney. What was the outcome?