Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2018

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for these four minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you for these two more minutes.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That's 12 minutes that Mr. Samson has been talking.

Will there be any time left for my colleague Ms. Lambropoulos, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Yes.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Okay.

Mr. Jolin, I'm surprised to hear you say that Minister Mulroney wasn't aware that the federal government could be involved in such a large, enormous project, which has been under construction for so many years, since 2012, in fact.

You say that the Government of Canada ensures that it can fund the first four years of the university's existence from the outset until the financial situation in Ontario improves.

Is this confirmed? Have you had that discussion with Minister Joly?

[Carol Jolin]

If I remember correctly, Ms. Joly made an initial announcement on Twitter that the government was ready to commit. We approached her office. I wouldn't be moving this forward without the assurance that there is a commitment. I didn't receive it in writing, but there is a commitment on the federal side to move forward with such a solution.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

This is a very attractive solution for the Ontario government. The first four years of existence would be funded by the federal government in one fell swoop, if I understand your letter correctly.

[Carol Jolin]

We think it meets the objectives of both governments.

Mr. Ford's response is that his government will start by working to achieve Ontario's balanced budget objectives. Mr. Ford has given himself until the next provincial election to achieve this.

If we're counting properly, that brings us to that point.

I think it's a win-win solution. In other words, on the one hand, the federal government is giving a solid hand to ensure that it can meet its mandate in terms of linguistic duality and support for official language minority communities. On the other hand, it gives the Ontario government time to get its finances in order as it intends to do, and then to commit itself.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I know that the letter is fairly recent; it's from December 3. Is Ms. Mulroney, who is responsible for the francophonie in Ontario, aware of this option?

[Carol Jolin]

I think so.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

What was her reaction?

[Carol Jolin]

She hasn't responded.

We mention this in the letter. What we are doing is establishing a channel of communication, among other things, between the two levels of government so that they can talk to each other.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I hope that the communication will be very generous and that the path of communication will be very fluid.

I have a question for you. You talked about federal leadership in different ways, including in response to the questions of my colleague Mr. Choquette.

How can we improve the leadership of the Government of Canada? How can we do better than that in the immediate future?

We have confirmed the financial commitment, and we are very flexible for the first four years. How can we do better? What do you expect from the federal government?

[Carol Jolin]

First, we must continue the dialogue and maintain the pressure. Second, to put pressure on, you have to understand the issue, the need for the Université de l'Ontario français in Toronto and why we are here. The historical background contained in the document provided to you raises many points in this regard.

Demographically, we know that the largest concentration of francophones in Ontario will no longer be in eastern Ontario in six to eight years, but in the Greater Toronto Area. We are already seeing this demographic growth. Indeed, the two existing francophone school boards open new elementary schools every two years and a new secondary school every four or five years. There are 110 elementary schools and 40 high schools in this south-central-western region. In Ontario, 200,000 youth are enrolled in immersion schools, including 150,000 in the Greater Toronto Area. It is therefore extremely important to be able to offer young people who are finishing high school the choice of continuing their studies there, because we know that they won't travel within an 80 kilometre radius if they have the opportunity to study close to home.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Yes, I understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Arseneault.

We'll now give the floor to Mr. Généreux for four minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning.

First, I'd like to congratulate you for all the work you've done in the past few weeks. It's quite spectacular!

I have a more fundamental question. Do you perceive the attack—a generalized impression and I agree with this term—by the Ontario government on the province's francophone community as an attack on the very essence of the Francophonie, francophones or the francophone community, and not simply as a budgetary issue? I have heard several comments of all kinds on this subject and I would like to hear your interpretation of what happened.

[Carol Jolin]

After hearing the government's position, which is based on economic factors, the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario tried to fight this position. We wanted to see exactly what that meant. Based on possible funding from the federal government, we concluded that the bill for the new university was no longer $80 million, but rather $40 million. However, $40 million over eight years represents $5 million per year. So we were able to put the issue into context and prove that this $5 million is a very small amount of money in the college and training budget. Our objective was to ask the government if what it plans to do to save only $5 million a year for eight years is really worth it, instead of funding the establishment, in an environment that needs it, of a university that will have an economic impact. Because we must remember that the arrival of a university or college somewhere always brings economic benefits.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Jolin, I would really like to know if you have also interpreted this as an attack on the very essence of the Francophonie, on one of the two founding peoples, on Canada's francophones. Did you or your community also perceive this as a direct attack on francophones? Do you understand what I'm saying?

[Carol Jolin]

I understand perfectly well.

We didn't stop at these ideological considerations. For us, it was more important to move the issue forward financially. To be able to talk to the government, you have to speak its language, and its language is the economy. So that's what we did.

People in the community have the right to think what they want. What happened was seen as an attack on the Francophonie because it was the Université de l'Ontario français and the Office of the Commissioner of French Language Services that were targeted. For us, these two institutions are important. As Mr. Blaney pointed out earlier, while Quebec has the government to defend its institutions, in Ontario, it is the institutions that defend the Francophonie. What happened was a direct attack that meant a decline in the rights of francophones. Our organization was created to advance francophone issues politically and to protect our gains when necessary, and that is exactly what we are doing.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Since you took the floor this morning, I have had the feeling—and correct me if I'm wrong—that you are defending the university more, at least before the committee, than the Office of the Commissioner. Am I dreaming or is this a strategic choice you have decided to make to ensure that the university is established, perhaps because the Commissioner hasn't lost his budget even though he has lost his independence?

[Carol Jolin]

Yesterday, we appeared before a provincial committee. We are conducting the two files together because they are both very important at the provincial level.

At the federal level, both issues remain as important as ever. The question of funding, however, only applies to the university. The message I'm sending you today is that we need the federal government, its leadership and creativity to move this issue forward by finding a win-win solution.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Généreux.

We'll now give the floor to Ms. Lambropoulos for four minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Saint-Laurent, Lib.]

Good morning, and thank you to the witnesses for being with us today.

My colleague across the way had mentioned that in Quebec we're lucky that we have institutions that protect the French language, that it's much more of a struggle outside Quebec, and that we need to push even harder outside Quebec in order for francophone Canadians to have the same rights.

Obviously, there's a minority group in Quebec as well, and it's the anglophone minority group. They don't necessarily always have the same rights, and the fact that this has recently happened in Ontario sets a precedent for what could happen in other provinces as well. If provincial governments are not on the same page as the federal government or do not feel that everybody's rights are equal, they may push for these things to happen there as well.

I'd like you to talk to us more generally about the importance of educational institutions at all levels in order to preserve a language within a given province and to give the same rights to minority linguistic groups.

[Carol Jolin]

I envy the anglophone minority in Quebec because they have many hospitals, three major universities, well recognized throughout the country; and that gives us motivation to work to obtain the same thing here. We have one French hospital and we had to fight 21 years ago, tooth and nail, to be able to keep it; and that was the last largest francophone gathering to keep those services. We fought hard for that. We're at the point here where it's extremely important that we can go forward with the francophone university. The need is just as big for us as it is for our anglophone friends in Quebec to have those institutions. Your institutions are what's giving life to your community, and that's why we're fighting really hard on this issue.

I don't know if I got to exactly what you were asking me.