Official Languages Committee on Sept. 27th, 2016

[Stefanie Beck]

No, that would take much more time, and we don't have the capacity to do it. As you know, hundreds of thousands of people apply each year. It would be impossible for us to operate that way.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

In minority environments? Hundreds of thousands...

[Stefanie Beck]

It would be nice.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That's the team we're looking for.

[Stefanie Beck]

Yes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

We're looking for a team that focuses only on that.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Samson. I was getting to that.

[Stefanie Beck]

We would still have to—

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Samson read my mind.

[Stefanie Beck]

If it were the case, we would also have to do it in English. We would not be able to administer the tests in French only.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

To go back to what my friend Mr. Samson was saying, the problem of getting a team does not arise with English. It's not where the resources are needed.

[Stefanie Beck]

Yes, but if we did that, the Commissioner of Official Languages would immediately ask us why we're offering the service to francophones, and not to anglophones.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

It would be to correct the injustice and inequality from the standpoint of the Official Languages Act, or to standardize things in some way. It seems to me that it would be so easy to standardize, but I'm saying that as a casual observer.

[David Manicom]

The objective would be to provide equal services, equivalent to those of the organization that administers the IELTS test in English, worldwide. There are similar tests in English, such as the TOEFL, which is very popular in the United States. At a certain price point, this would probably be possible. Those tests are administered in hundreds of cities throughout the world.

If there were testing centres in hundreds of cities worldwide, including countries where there are few francophone candidates, the unit cost would be very high. It's not that the government would be unable to do it, but that the cost would be enormous.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Has your team assessed the magnitude of those costs?

[David Manicom]

We don't have the numbers because, from the outset, we have encouraged other organizations to make us proposals for preparing the test. We've been in talks with those organizations for a few years. We're encouraging the TEF organization to offer its services. We're encouraging the people to change their pricing system.

Large business organizations administer these tests for many reasons other than Canadian immigration. For example, they use the tests for university admission purposes throughout the world. It's worth nothing that the level of services varies a great deal depending on the country, and naturally, companies that do a lot of business in one country, and less in another, organize the frequency of their tests, and the testing sites, based on that.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Do I still have time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Yes.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

We were talking about immigration in minority environments. At least that's what I'd like to discuss, whether it be anglophones in Quebec or francophones outside Quebec. I'm in the latter group. Is there no way to standardize a test for linguistic minorities who are based in majority communities? Here is a suggestion. What about standardizing the test by working with the embassies of the countries the applicants come from, and to send the written test to your office in Canada, or the office of someone under your jurisdiction, for analysis, whether it be in French or English?

It would be standardized, accessibility would be uniform, and official languages would be respected. I am talking about the minority context, that is to say, anglophones who'd like to settle in Quebec, francophones who'd like to settle outside Quebec, or a few anglophones who'd like to settle in northern New Brunswick, where the population is homogeneously francophone to some extent. In my view, it would be simple and affordable.

[David Manicom]

It would be extremely expensive. We have organized tests in embassies. It takes a group of experts, a security team, people to administer the tests, and so forth, throughout the world. And it should be borne in mind that there are many countries with no Canadian embassy.

In short, we are well aware that this is a problem. We're determined to fix it, but it's complex. It takes time, and will probably take money. Officials can prepare options and present them to the government, and we're in the middle of doing that. But the solutions are complex and costly.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I understand what you're saying, Mr. Manicom. I'm naive, and I hope you'll forgive me.

Your way of addressing the situation is to delegate to other bodies the responsibility for providing the service. As for me, I'm talking to you about other ways of helping people who want to settle in a minority community. That can't be too many people.

[Stefanie Beck]

We're also trying to say that the fact that they can't take the test where they want, at a reasonable price, in no way prevents them from settling in a francophone minority community. That's not at all what prevents them from doing that. People have the right to go where they want, regardless of which exam they wrote so that they—

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I understand, but your objective—

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Arseneault, your time is up.

I give the floor to Mr. Vandal.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to follow up on the same subject. If the test isn't what's preventing people from coming to Canada, what's the purpose of the test?