Evidence of meeting #25 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was immigrants.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Denis Vaillancourt  President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario
Peter Hominuk  Executive Director, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario
Annick Schulz  Director of Communications, Marketing and External Relations, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Ontario
Valérie Sniadoch  Director, Employability and Immigration, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Ontario

8:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Welcome to our committee. It is Tuesday, October 4, 2016.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study of the roadmap, and immigration in francophone minority communities.

This morning we are pleased to have with us Mr. Denis Vaillancourt, president of the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario, as well as the executive director, Mr. Peter Hominuk. Welcome, gentlemen.

We will begin with the roadmap. You will have about ten minutes for your presentation. We will then have a question period, with replies and comments. Afterwards we will discuss the immigration dossier with you.

You have the floor.

8:50 a.m.

Denis Vaillancourt President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

It is a real pleasure and privilege to appear before you this morning to share the point of view of the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario.

This unifying organization speaks for more than 611,500 Ontario francophones. It is on their behalf that we are speaking this morning.

We appreciate this opportunity the share the point of view of our organization on behalf of the Franco-Ontarian community regarding the renewal of the roadmap, which could also be called an action plan, as well as on francophone immigration.

I am joined this morning by our executive director, Mr. Peter Hominuk, and our analyst Mr. Bryan Michaud, who joined our team recently.

We recently released the Community Strategic Plan for French Ontario, which you already have in hand. The comments we will be making this morning are informed by this document. This was research we conducted with more than 2,500 Franco-Ontarians; we wanted to identify their aspirations and priorities for the next ten years. Behind these comments lies a great deal of research, a public consultation, which took place during the summer of 2015. We are very proud of the results and inspired to further action by the aspirations of our fellow francophones of Ontario.

As I said previously, our community includes 611,500 Franco-Ontarians. This is the largest francophone community outside Quebec. Its numbers make it unique, of course, as does its geography. We are present in isolated regions in Ontario, and in urban ones. The Ontario francophonie is unique because of its origins, and as is the case for other communities outside Quebec, because of its isolation. All of these elements make providing French services a challenge.

According to the last census, 41% of the Franco-Ontarian population resides in eastern Ontario. 117,000 francophones live in Ottawa. The 2011 census also shows that 28.7% of the population lives in south-central Ontario. However, as Bernard Derome pointed out, if the trends persist, that area will soon be home to more francophones than eastern Ontario, mainly because of the influx of francophone immigrants.

However, south-central Ontario, the region from Toronto to Windsor, presents some major challenges. Despite the fact that there are many francophones in the area, they are submerged in the large, dominant anglophone community. Providing services to this francophone population is thus a considerable challenge.

22% of our community resides in northeast and northwest Ontario. Member of Parliament Mr. Lefebvre knows the area well. We are happy that he is at your table.

When I speak about the needs, the roadmap or the Ontario francophonie, I am inspired by a comment made by the Commissioner of Official Languages when he presented his report to your committee in 2013.

He said this:

Our official languages are a defining characteristic of our Canadian identity. We need to feel that both languages belong to us and are a part of our sense of national identity, even if we don't speak one of them.

To that I would add that the French language could be in danger if we don't take care of it.

In that sense, the importance of a roadmap, government support and community engagement leads us to stake our claims and to work for the development of the language so as to ensure its survival and that of our culture in all its diversity. We recognize that the Ontario francophonie, like the Canadian francophonie, is diverse because of its origins and we accept the challenge. The common denominator is the language we want to protect.

And in fact, it is interesting to note that the last survey done by the Commissioner of Official Languages showed the popularity of both official languages in our country. I attended the Ontario consultations conducted by the minister and the parliamentary secretary, who conveyed the Canadian desire to support both official languages very well.

It matters little what name the government chooses to call it, be it an action plan or a roadmap. I remember well that in Mr. Dion's day it was called an action plan. Then it became a roadmap. I heard the minister and parliamentary secretary refer to an action plan. The important thing, I think, is to act. That is the meaning of the plan.

For us as for many others, it is important that the roadmap support francophones outside Quebec in order to allow them to live in French daily, be it in Regina, Victoria, Yellowknife, Windsor, Timmins or Toronto, Thunder Bay or Ottawa.

The government's investments in policies and public practices that further linguistic duality are very important. If it did not make them, French could disappear. This is always a concern for us.

We have to help francophones in minority communities to live their francophonie on a daily basis. We have to broaden the spaces and the active offer of services in education, health, community environments, the legal system, cultural areas and so on. In minority situations, government support and examples and models are crucially important, as is the roadmap.

You have to understand that minority communities do not always have the social and economic infrastructures of the majority. Consequently, we have to compensate by providing spaces and environments. Schools, for instance, are in my opinion the cornerstone for the development of our language and communities throughout the country.

All through my mandate as president of the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario, I have advocated what I may repeat a few times this morning. It is the idea that we have to promote the “francophone reflex”. For instance, in the context of its services, the federal government has to promote this “francophone reflex”.

Too often we assume that francophones in our country speak the second language. However, I think that in any society that claims to have two official languages, there is a duty to provide an active offer of services, which you will have heard before and will probably hear again. We have to support communications, arts and culture and social activities in French. We can say unequivocally that in Ontario, the federal action plan and funds are levers to get the provinces to act.

That is the case for Ontario. As a former educator in Ontario, I can state that roadmaps and bilateral agreements concluded in the framework of the Official Language in Education Program and the Ontario-Canada Community Agreement allowed the provincial government of Ontario to play its role, sometimes even beyond what the contributions made possible. This is the type of leverage the federal government can always provide, which is why having a roadmap is important.

Let's move on to our topic of concern in Ontario. Our population is vast and diverse. We have the advantage of having some very well populated cities and some very isolated areas. Comparisons either dismay or console you. I will not go through the history of the cultural centres that exist in many places in Ontario.

In the past, these cultural centres benefited from important amounts, in my opinion, of $40,000, whereas the cultural centres of another province might receive a subsidy of $150,000. We have trouble understanding such disparities and we hope to work on improving those aspects.

We are of course aware that minorities outside Ontario are smaller, and there is a cost to providing service to smaller communities. I would say however that there is also a cost to providing service to more numerous communities that are dispersed throughout a given area.

We can't neglect that aspect. I did not go into it, because it is not as directly related to official languages. However, you can provide leverage to further cultural infrastructure.

In Ontario, our community is interested in three projects, among others.

First, an arts centre is being planned in Sudbury. It is important that this community group work with the federal and provincial governments to make this cultural centre project a reality. What I say to the people of Sudbury is that if Hearst can have an arts centre, Sudbury can have one as well.

If you follow current events here, you probably know the Théâtre du Nouvel-Ontario. That is another example of a cultural infrastructure project.

In Toronto, francophones want to open a permanent maison de la francophonie.

That is the type of thing that should be created through the roadmap, and it can be done with investments.

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Mr. Vaillancourt, with your permission, perhaps you could continue your presentation during the question and answer period.

9 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

9 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Since we are pressed for time, we are going to begin the question period immediately.

Four people have asked for the floor: Mr. Généreux, Ms. Lapointe, Mr. Choquette and Mr. Arseneault. You will all have five minutes.

We will begin immediately with Mr. Généreux.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Vaillancourt and Mr. Hominuk, I want to welcome you here this morning.

Mr. Vaillancourt, you said that there are 611,500 francophones in Ontario, and that their numbers are growing.

9 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

9 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

How many francophones were there in Ontario 10 years ago?

9 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Denis Vaillancourt

There were 550,000 about 10 years ago, but two things happened. First, immigration played a role, but in addition, Ontario adopted what may be a unique approach: the province adopted an inclusive definition of the francophonie.

While keeping in mind section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which concerns the right to schooling in the language of the minority, imagine the case of a francophone immigrant. Under this article, in Ontario as in the other provinces with the exception of Quebec, if a francophone is not a rights holder under the Charter, he or she must apply to an admissions committee to be allowed to attend a French school. Just imagine that, if you will. In Ontario 10 years ago, if a French person from France arrived in Ontario and wanted to go to a French school, he had to apply to an admissions committee.

What Ontario did to make that approach more flexible was to make any person who spoke French and arrived in Ontario a person who had the right to schooling in French, even if that was not their mother tongue. That is being done in Ontario, but let's be clear, it is not the case everywhere in Canada.

By adopting that inclusive definition in 2003, I believe, 50,000 more immigrants were included as francophones, so that there are now 611,500.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Fine.

In 2011, when you appeared before the committee, you said that the roadmap at the time had some very positive aspects. We know that that roadmap included several initiatives.

Which initiatives in the current roadmap, the 2013-2018 one, have been most beneficial?

9 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Denis Vaillancourt

There are two things. What is beneficial is that local organizations in different parts of the province were provided with operating funds and project funds. Those contributions allowed us among other things to consult the francophone population of Ontario. We formed many partnerships with the federal government last year, when we celebrated 400 years of francophone presence in Ontario. This gave new energy to the organizations and allowed them to take their place in this province.

I would say that the yearly contributions to operations in these francophone environments in our cities and villages is an essential tool in Anglo-dominant circumstances. The cultural centres and groups generate an energy, be they retiree groups or francophone historical associations.

All you have to do is look at what was done on the cultural plane over the past 10 years. In the past, people spoke about Sudbury already as a place where there was a core group of actors and singers. People spoke about Ottawa as well. If you look at emerging artists today, you will see that they come from everywhere in Ontario. I am thinking for instance of Céleste Lévis, who is from Timmins, or Damien Robitaille, who is from Penetanguishene. There is a very active French theatre in Toronto. These are all things that have developed because of previous contributions.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

You mentioned that the 2013-2018 roadmap should have a higher profile. Is that because you are under the impression, or are certain, that the roadmap is not well known in Canada, or in Ontario particularly?

9 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Denis Vaillancourt

No, the organizations are quite familiar with the roadmap.

Over the past 10 years, the various roadmap community programs were frozen, which meant that we lost ground. If there is an intention to renew program funding in the new roadmap, that should be done.

I will try to tell you from memory what happened in Ontario; Mr. Hominuk will help me.

There are three or four cultural centres in small communities that had to close because after 10 years of unacknowledged inflation, they could no longer manage to have a volunteer or a physical space. I remind you that in minority communities the environment is Anglo-dominant. So we have to create spaces to promote the language and culture.

There is a comment I often make to my FCFA colleagues.

I have not done the calculations and I won't bother you with the figures, but if you do the math, you will see that the per capita for the 611,000 francophones in Ontario and the other minority communities outside Quebec is much lower than in the rest of the country. In saying that, I'm really speaking as a Franco-Ontarian.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mr. Vaillancourt.

Ms. Lapointe, you have the floor.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Good morning.

Welcome. I am very pleased to have you with us at the committee this morning.

I did some research after my colleague suggested that I consult the report tabled in June 2015 entitled “Immigration as aTool for Enhancing the Vitality and Supporting the Development of Francophone Minority Communities”. I believe you contributed to that, Mr. Hominuk.

Two recommendations were made following the publication of that report. Would you like me to read them?

9:05 a.m.

Peter Hominuk Executive Director, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Please.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

The first one reads as follows: “That Citizenship and Immigration Canada promote the opportunity to live and work in French in francophone minority communities.”

This is the second one: “That Citizenship and Immigration Canada consider options to increase the number of francophone immigrants who settle in a francophone minority community in Canada through its Express Entry program.”

According to what you see in Ontario, have those recommendations been implemented?

9:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Peter Hominuk

If those recommendations were implemented, we cannot yet see the results.

There is no doubt that there's still a lot of work to do in this regard. The federal government is very far from the target it set for itself, which was 4.4%. I think that the most recent figure was 1.5% of immigrants.

The Government of Ontario has begun discussions and created an expert panel on immigration, which is due to report soon. The purpose of those discussions is to see how Ontario and the federal government could work better to reach those targets. On the ground, we don't really see any progress. There is still a lot of work to do.

9:05 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Denis Vaillancourt

He is the public servant, and I am the politician, if you will.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

According to the report, Mr. Hominuk took part in that work. I did not see your name and I apologize.

9:05 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Denis Vaillancourt

I agree.

I was going to address the second topic, but it will save...

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

I had another question, but if you take all of my time, that won't do.

9:05 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Denis Vaillancourt

I will skip that and I can talk about it later.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Fine.

Yesterday, there was an article in the news that stated that new immigrants were “more Canadian than native-born Canadians”. I don't know if you had an opportunity to see that.

Does the fact that people who immigrate to Canada are very happy to be here mean that they contribute more economically than those who were born here?

9:05 a.m.

President, Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario

Denis Vaillancourt

I will tell you something I heard, and Mr. Boissonnault will remember it.

During the consultation in Waterloo, two new colleagues, Ms. Bardish Chagger and Mr. Raj Saini, made a presentation in French, to their enormous credit and to my great surprise. They said that they had not been told about the importance of linguistic duality when they arrived in Canada. They were addressing francophones in the hall.

The problem, regarding immigration, is that linguistic duality is not promoted. I apologize to the members from Quebec, but I get the impression that people are told that French Canada is limited to Quebec.