Official Languages Committee on Oct. 20th, 2016

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning and welcome, Mr. Boileau.

You spoke earlier of early childhood education. I can easily understand the importance of having available spots in French day care centres. If we are talking about a five-year objective for early childhood education, what should we be hoping to see in the next roadmap? Are you able to express that as a number of spaces?

You say that 60% of Ontario couples are exogamous. Are you in a position to list the places and determine how many spaces there should be?

I am from Quebec and I have observed that they always set an objective as to the number of day care spaces. I would like to have a more precise idea of that for francophone centres.

[François Boileau]

Thank you for the question.

I am not in a position to do that because we have done no analyses, studies or reports on that question. I would however eventually like to consider that aspect closely.

My federal colleague has just produced a report on this topic. They got on board the bandwagon when it went by. We feel the report produced by my colleague is excellent. I wondered if I should also prepare one for Ontario. It is a reasonable thought. As for determining the number of spaces, I am not certain that this is the work of my office. However, it would certainly be the work of the Government of Ontario. Indeed, this is more a matter of provincial jurisdiction.

As to the role of the federal government, it should at least begin discussions with the provincial governments and include this topic in the next action plan or the next roadmap, whatever we choose to call it. This would make it possible to have this discussion with provincial partners, and it would be their job to determine the number of spaces needed. However, we would need input from the community.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I am going to continue on the topic of early childhood education.

So, the percentage of exogamous couples is 60%. Let's suppose a couple wants to send its children to a francophone early childhood centre but cannot find one. In such a situation, would you be able to determine what consequences this can lead to, what schools the children would go to and whether they choose the francophone or anglophone system?

[François Boileau]

I am sure there are many studies on that question. I have none with me today, but I know so many researchers who have studied the issue that I am convinced the answer is out there.

All of the studies show that proximity is the main factor in the parents' choice of a school. It is first and foremost a proximity issue.

We have to encourage all exogamous couples to understand that if the immersion school is a little closer, and if the French language school is further away...

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We are also talking about early childhood.

[François Boileau]

Let's talk about early childhood.

In the French-language schools of Ontario, they have included a program for kindergarten and junior kindergarten, which is part of early childhood. This integration took place more than 10 years ago. In most cases it allowed the schools to keep the children. My daughter is a good example, even if it is not perfect since our couple is not exogamous.

We note that students stay in the French school in grade 1 because they are already there, either in junior kindergarten or kindergarten. Since they are already in the physical premises, this creates a habit, either for school buses or routine. It creates habits that the parents keep because they don't want to disrupt their children's lives.

It isn't just a matter of day care spaces for very young children, but also for kindergarten and junior kindergarten.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Boileau.

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe.

Before moving on to the second part, I would like to welcome certain observers who are here this morning. They are taking part in the Parliamentary Officers Study Program and are from various points around the globe.

Welcome to our committee, ladies and gentlemen.

We will now move to the second part of our meeting, which will be about immigration. Mr. Boileau will have five to seven minutes. Afterwards, we will have a question and answer period.

[François Boileau]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yesterday, the committee asked me to do a 10-minute presentation. I will do my best. Once again, I would like to thank you for having me here today.

In recent years, Ontario has demonstrated leadership by setting a target of 5% for francophone immigration. As I noted in my previous presentation, I collaborated with the Commissioner of Official Languages on the publication of a report written to show how to remedy the imbalance in relation to francophone immigration.

That report led to the creation of a group of experts, that includes a representative of the federal government, to develop a government-wide strategic plan for achieving the 5% target for francophone immigration in Ontario. We are very much looking forward to the report of this group of experts. We still note the lack of good evidence concerning the impact of the changes made to the federal government's immigration system since 2012.

This situation in Ontario is critical as we are far from the expected 5%.

This is why we wanted to lead by example. In November 2014 my federal colleague Mr. Graham Fraser and I published a joint report to present an overview and analysis of the issues surrounding immigration to francophone communities.

We formulated eight recommendations, primarily to the federal government, but also to the Government of Ontario. These recommendations deal with support for French-speaking immigrants through francophone institutions and organizations, information and resources for French-speaking newcomers, co-operation with the provinces, incentives for employers to recruit and select francophone and bilingual workers, and accountability.

We believe that the Government of Canada and the Government of Ontario must join forces and show leadership so that immigration truly contributes to the development and vitality of francophone minority communities.

As proof, in 2014, 2.2% of the immigrant population had French as its spoken official language, according to the Office of Francophone Affairs. However, the situation is more alarming because the percentage has been decreasing since 2012, and in 2015 we only have 2%.

Consequently, as is the case for the Canadian population as a whole, we need immigration to offset the sharp decline in the birth rate and higher rates of population aging.

Immigration has a direct impact on the community's vitality. It is clear that over the years, Canada and Ontario francophone communities have benefited less from immigration than have anglophone majority communities.

On another note, the very recent announcement of an agreement signed by all provincial and territorial premiers, apart from Quebec, represents a step forward on this issue. This means that unless a strategic plan is put in place for attracting, recruiting, welcoming, integrating and retaining francophone immigrants at both the provincial and the national levels, it will be very difficult for us to achieve that target.

As you know, this is a subject that is under shared federal and provincial jurisdiction, which means that the different levels of government must collaborate to facilitate progress.

Another major challenge presented by immigration is labour market integration. Newcomers continue to face many obstacles when it comes to integration that prevent them from entering the labour market and practising regulated professions.

In fact, the introduction of the mobility francophone program by the federal government is very good news since the capacity to attract new francophone immigrants to Ontario is still a major challenge today.

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome the innovative initiative taken by Collège Boréal, which recently signed its first two student mobility agreements outside Canada, with Belgium and France.

This international recruiting strategy is a good fit with the program to facilitate the process for francophones who want to come and work in Ontario. Other initiatives have been put in place by other post-secondary institutions in order to improve labour market training.

Nonetheless, we must still note that we are also admitting qualified professionals like doctors, nurses, engineers, teachers and others.

Unfortunately, however, they face many challenges and are unable to practise in the fields to which their skills apply. Most often they have to go back to school, something that can be very expensive, particularly for recent immigrants.

It is also a waste of money for the host society when it fails to benefit from the contribution these professionals can make. Yes, this falls under provincial jurisdiction, but the federal government has to play a leadership role so that an immigrant who has had their credentials recognized and has been admitted to a professional body, can also do so easily in Ontario once they move here.

Similarly, people who move from one province to another also face this obstacle, since in most cases provincial and territorial professional bodies do not recognize diplomas granted by the other provinces and territories.

It is therefore our duty to put in place a strategic plan with the aim not only of facilitating their transition into the work world, but also of equipping them so they are able to have the work experience and education they acquired in their country, province or territory of origin recognized.

In recent decades the Government of Ontario has taken important steps toward protecting and improving the availability and quality of services in French and, most importantly, enhancing the feeling of belonging.

One of the most ambitious measures is the adoption of a new inclusive definition that has applied to the francophone population of Ontario since June 2009. This new inclusive definition of francophone reflects the new diversity of Franco-Ontarians regardless of their place of birth, their ethnic origin, or their religion.

I will take this opportunity to note that Ontario is the very first province in Canada to implement this initiative. In fact, Manitoba very recently enacted new legislation, the Francophone Community Enhancement and Support Act, which also contains a more inclusive definition and presents a more accurate picture of the Franco-Manitoban community.

The recent announcement of Ontario's application for membership in the Organisation internationale de la Francophonie is very timely, since it will certainly have an impact on the recruiting strategy. Research done by the OIF has shown that there will be over 700 million francophones in the world by 2050.

In addition, 85% of that population will come from Africa and that will happen within less than 35 years. Ontario must therefore look to Sub-Saharan Africa, which offers vast economic opportunities for the province's businesses, but which is also experiencing major population growth, primarily in the francophone countries there.

It is against this backdrop that I encourage the province of Ontario and Canada to launch a recruiting campaign. It is important that we look to this new demographic wave and benefit from it by recruiting and attracting skilled francophone immigrants.

As the celebrations to mark the 150^th anniversary of Confederation in 2017 approach, it has become a matter of the highest priority that the two levels of government collaborate and more specifically that they demonstrate leadership in the area of francophone immigration to ensure that the Canadian population thrives. First and foremost, we must find concrete ways of remedying the current imbalance that the francophone communities are experiencing when it comes to immigration.

Thank you for your attention, and I will be pleased to answer questions from yourself and your colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Boileau.

We will begin our question period immediately. Each member of the committee will have four minutes.

We will begin with Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Boileau.

Do you think it is fair to ask whether the objective that had been set for the percentage of francophone immigration was too high, or poorly structured? What was the problem, in your opinion? Was the target too high or too low? Was sufficient effort put into trying to reach the objectives? It is all well and good to have objectives in life, but we have to have the means to attain them.

[François Boileau]

Thank you for these questions.

In fact, we could reverse the situation. The objectives may not be high enough to allow the community not only to maintain itself, but to grow. That is what we are trying to achieve.

Let's take Manitoba as an example. I remember that at the time we had 7% targets in Manitoba. Why? Precisely in order to allow the community not only to maintain itself, but also to grow. I could mention that in Ontario, when we talked about a 5% objective, that was already a victory. It was the first time that the government publicly committed to a target. I consciously chose to react positively and not...

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

And not put a damper on things?

[François Boileau]

I did not want to put a damper on things at the time so that we could move forward. It was after all a positive strategy.

What I note is that it has been a long time since Ontario developed that target, and we are still waiting for the report of the group of experts to tell us how we can reach it, in concrete terms. I am very much looking forward to having that information. The report should be made public any time now.

It was at the federal level that the recommendations Mr. Fraser and I made were very timely. In order to ensure that we would reach that target, we made recommendations to include more francophone communities in the promotion and recruitment strategies. It is very commendable that there are some very good initiatives like Destination Canada, which takes place in France or in Belgium. My message today is to suggest that you also think about Sub-Saharan Africa and other places in the world where there is demographic growth among francophones. We could also recruit future immigrants in these locations.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I conclude from what you have just said that you would like to see existing tools broadened, or that they be broadened at least in the locations where we are using them, so that we can go and get francophones in different places.

Once again, are federal-provincial relations, and the tools that have been put in place, like Destination Canada, adequate? Are there enough of them?

[François Boileau]

It's really not my place to start discussing federal strategies. You can understand why I want to show discretion in that regard.

The important thing for me was to pass on the message that the two levels of government must work together. I'm pressuring my own government, in Ontario, to create an integrated strategy for francophone immigration.

However, this strategy is like a dance. It's like a tango. It really needs two people to work. The federal government and the Ontario government must dance together. That's why the group of experts I referred to in my presentation includes a representative from Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. We therefore think we'll have the beginnings of a common strategy.

That said, regarding francophone immigration, the federal government must not think we're doing this only to comply with the Official Languages Act or the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. We're actually doing this out of necessity. It's a reality.

We see it in our area, in Toronto. In the Greater Toronto Area, nearly one in two francophones wasn't born in Canada. That's a large number of people. We must make sure they're properly integrated when they arrive here. The challenge is not only to find the immigrants, but to integrate them properly when they arrive in Ontario. Otherwise, they'll think the society as a whole or the government provides only English services, which isn't the case.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Boileau.

I'll now give the floor to Mr. Vandal.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Boileau, thank you for mentioning Manitoba a number of times.

[François Boileau]

I'm biased toward Manitoba, since I lived there.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I attended the opening of the Bilingual Service Centre in Manitoba, in 1999. At the time, the mayor was Glen Murray and the minister was Don Boudria. The centre is still a model for the country.

Regarding the three components of immigration, which are recruitment, intake and integration, I would like to know in which area your province is successful and in which area it's less successful.

[François Boileau]

That's a good question.

When we consider the number of new immigrants, we think they could be much more involved in the francophone community. We wonder whether all these people know that French services and French-language schools are available.

Ontario has reacted. Before, the school boards had quite high criteria for selecting future students. They needed to pass an entrance test and so on. The government was asked to issue a directive to ensure that francophone school boards show more flexibility. The criteria are now more flexible.

In the case of new immigrants, the fact that parents and children are interviewed at the French-language school, whereas the English-language school accepts people without asking them questions, can cause concerns. It doesn't help with integration. These are the issues we're trying to resolve. Things are getting better in that area.

Are new immigrants familiar with the francophone community? Are they aware of the services provided? When they leave Lester B. Pearson International Airport in Toronto, Macdonald-Cartier International Airport in Ottawa, or James Armstrong Richardson International Airport in Winnipeg, do they know that francophone communities provide services in French?

It's important to properly guide them from the start. In most cases, they're perfectly bilingual, but French isn't necessarily their first official spoken language. Whether they speak Arab or Wolof, the important thing is to look after them as soon as they arrive and help them integrate.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

So we need to improve the recruitment method.

[François Boileau]

That's why the Mobilité francophone program is important. The renewal of the program helps us apply a recruitment strategy that focuses more on the needs of Canadian businesses, including francophone businesses looking for bilingual or francophone staff. However, we still don't know how well the program is working.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you.

Mr. Choquette, you have the floor.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Boileau, you just referred to the Mobilité francophone program. I think it's very important. For a long time, we had wanted this type of program to be implemented again. It had existed before, but had unfortunately been eliminated. As you said, since it's a new program, we can't measure the results yet. Other witnesses have told us that employers are no longer accustomed to the program, that they no longer know exactly how to use it and that they're not entirely confident. There's a great deal of work to do to reassure employers and encourage them to choose the program.

The program is aimed at temporary workers. Express Entry, however, is aimed at immigrants who will stay and integrate into our communities. The people from New Brunswick who we met with—I believe last Tuesday—explained that they had integrated a francophone lens into the Express Entry program. The lens is not included in the program at the federal level, but New Brunswick integrated the lens on its own. I don't know Ontario's position in that regard. I see that not all provinces have opted for the francophone lens.

How can we help improve the intake of francophone immigrants in each province?

[François Boileau]

My job was to ensure that the two levels of government communicate, in order for them to become familiar with and understand the needs of Ontario's francophone community.

That's why I recommended that a group of community and governmental experts meet to discuss recruitment, integration, training and retention strategies. I'm very eager for the group of experts to release its report to see whether the issues you've just mentioned have been addressed.

I'm not in a position to analyze what the federal government is doing. That's my colleague's job. I look specifically at what Ontario must do. That's why I must show discretion. Of course, I could tell you it's a good a idea. However, I don't think it would be responsible on my part to comment on the federal government's actions when my job is to comment on the Ontario government's actions.