Official Languages Committee on Oct. 27th, 2016

[Hubert Lussier]

I simply want to recall that these tests are administered by organizations that are under contract to Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. So these outside organizations are accredited by the department to administer the tests.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I agree. The fact that, according to the minister and you, there is an excellent relationship between Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada and Canadian Heritage may improve matters.

You conducted consultations across the country. Are the priorities that the official language minority communities across Canada described to you the same as those of the departments?

[Jean-Pierre Gauthier]

Yes. The situation of the minority communities is quite well known. The consultations are invaluable because they are an opportunity to hear people explain what they experience. That adds texture to what we think we know because, in many cases, we are far away from the regions. It also helps us put each of the issues into perspective. Some are more important than others, depending on the region.

This is a chance for us to listen to people and to learn about the reality of their region. It is all well and good for us to know that reality, but it is also good to know what challenges they face and what their own priorities are.

[Hubert Lussier]

I would like to add something.

We invite members of the minority communities to take part in these consultations, as well as Canadians who are part of the majority—let us call it that.

In many of these consultations, an interesting dialogue is established between the minority and majority communities. The consultations are often attended by people from the majority communities, whom we call francophiles or the franco-curious, to use an expression dear to Mr. Boissonnault—I think he has copyrighted it. Viewed in that light, this willingness to cooperate is promising and helps reinforce the objectives of both sides.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Many people who work in the first-language education system say that the departments do not necessarily take their priorities into consideration in establishing their own priorities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here.

Earlier I had a conversation with Mr. Lussier that was off the record.

He said that major discussions had taken place on the communities. From what we hear, the communities have significant needs. There is the concept of “by and for” that we discussed earlier. The people from those communities rightly want more resources so they can provide more services.

That is not in contradiction with what is already being done, but I imagine the discussions in your department must focus on the question whether these people can be given more money or resources so they can provide more services. What difference would there be between those two ways of doing things, that is to say between the current way things are done and the idea of giving those communities more resources so they can provide more services?

[Jean-Pierre Gauthier]

In official languages, the fact that it is community organizations that provide services is already one very common way of proceeding, regardless of whether funding comes from Canadian Heritage or another department. However, that is not universal. We have previously issued calls for tender that were open to all those interested in providing services. There were cases in which various departments, such as Employment and Social Development Canada, Health Canada, and Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, which we just discussed, asked groups with some bilingual capacity to provide services to the minority community.

Some are exceptions, and we should not generalize. In the majority of cases, it is minority organizations that have the mandate to provide services to their community. However, that is not a principle. It is the result of the activities of our programs, and that means something.

We have discussed this issue in interdepartmental committees. We share our experience, which enables us to reflect on the concept of “by and for.” We are sensitive to that issue and we our reflecting on it.

Should more resources be allocated to that? This somehow takes us back to the question that was asked earlier about the roadmap. The amount set forth is an actual amount. Those resources are in fact disbursed every year. That funding could not be increased very much. There is a little here and there. It depends on the departments and programs, but there is not a lot.

We are already using all current resources, which are nevertheless significant, to carry out our activities. Every department will determine, based on circumstances, whether it can move resources around in order to allocate them to emerging priorities rather than continue funding something in the same way it has been funded for several years. This is how we are thinking in the context of the regular management of these programs.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

How do you explain the sharp increase in registration for second language immersion programs across Canada?

I see it as a very positive sign that Canada's anglophone community wants to learn French. However, a saturation level is being reached. My sister-in-law, for example, waited outside a Toronto school for 36 hours to register her children there.

[Hubert Lussier]

You are right. The fact that the majority population is so keenly interested and therefore wants to send their children to learn the minority language is quite unique in the world.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Should we increase funding so that more children can learn French?

[Hubert Lussier]

You are right. There is an appetite that is not completely satisfied.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Far from it, in my view.

[Jean-Pierre Gauthier]

Absolutely. We also know that many school boards despair that they are unable to meet more of the demand. Mr. Lussier talked about that two minutes ago. We spoke about teacher mobility, the ability to recruit qualified teachers to teach in the minority language, in this case French. This is a challenge that we address in the discussions we have with the provinces and territories when we fund second language instruction. We agreed with the provinces that we wanted to focus resources on this in an attempt to break the deadlock. The challenge is enormous.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Surely there are pools of teachers in Quebec.

[Jean-Pierre Gauthier]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Choquette, you have the floor.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I only have three minutes, right?

All right.

First, I want to thank you, gentlemen, for being with us. I interrupted you a little earlier because there was little time left, and I apologize for that. We have very little time, but we want to get to the bottom of things. However, we clearly will not do that today with regard to the management framework. We talked about that earlier, and you provided us with some explanation.

I asked the chair whether it would be possible to organize a separate meeting, as you sometimes do, so that you could give us a presentation on the management framework, which would help us understand those elements, including accountability. You say there is a management framework for 2013-2018. Well, it is extremely important for us MPs to understand that framework.

I understand that you cannot give us a long and detailed explanation in two minutes. In the circumstances, if you could organize that meeting with the committee, that would increase our understanding and help us continue our present study on the roadmap.

[Hubert Lussier]

Certainly.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you very much.

As I mentioned earlier, we still wonder whether the roadmap is more showcase than improvement. We will have to think about that before this plan or roadmap is implemented.

The consultations you are conducting internally are about the OLSPs, the roadmap, and everything the other departments are doing in official languages. I am thinking of immigration, for example. We have discussed that at length, and we are conducting a study on the subject.

With respect to justice issues, you mentioned the work you are currently doing with the provinces.

Do you think it is easy for an MP to find out what each of the departments is doing in official languages?

Are we able to access that information?

Can we find out how much money and human resources, specifically full-time equivalents, are allocated for that purpose in all departments and organizations?

Since we consider accountability and governance important—I think it was René Arsenault who asked a question on that subject—we want to know who is ultimately keeping an eye on what goes on.

[Hubert Lussier]

That is an important question.

With respect to accountability for what is done under the roadmap, it is possible for MPs, as it is for anyone else, to find out exactly what is being spent by consulting the documents that Mr. Gauthier referred to a little earlier. We can probably improve the way that is presented in the document, but it is available.

I would add one detail that I consider important. Many official languages initiatives that are taken are introduced under the authority of the roadmap and the departments concerned. However, many other things go beyond what is set forth in the roadmap, at Radio-Canada, the National Film Board, Telefilm Canada, and others. All these institutions do a great deal to interconnect the country's two majority cultures, anglophone and francophone, but also to support cultural production in the minority communities. These are things that these institutions do not highlight probably as obviously as those that are part of the roadmap, but they are nevertheless fundamentally important in achieving official language objectives.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Messrs. Lussier and Gauthier, for your presentation and answers to our questions.

This brings today's meeting to a close. I know that Mrs. Boucher wanted to talk to us about future business, but I simply want to inform committee members that, next Thursday, we have reserved an hour to review committee business. Consequently, we will defer the subject to next Thursday. Until then, we will adjourn to—

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Mr. Chair, I want to discuss that. I have received the text in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Have you all received it?

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have a committee meeting in another building at 11 o'clock.