Evidence of meeting #34 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was province.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Cyrilda Poirier  President, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador
Gaël Corbineau  Director General, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador
Emmanuel Nahimana  Project Manager, Immigration Francophone Nouvelle-Écosse

November 17th, 2016 / 8:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

My friends, we are still waiting for photocopies of the documents. It will take a few minutes, but we will begin today’s meeting anyway.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are continuing our study on the roadmap and immigration in francophone minority communities.

This morning, we are pleased to have with us the president of the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador, Cyrilda Poirier.

Good morning, Ms. Poirier, and welcome.

Welcome also to Gaël Corbineau, the organization’s director general.

We will proceed as follows. You have about 10 minutes to talk to us about the roadmap and the game plan that should result. There will then be a round of questions and comments from members of the committee. You will talk about immigration for 10 minutes and that will be followed with another round.

You have 10 minutes to talk to us about the roadmap.

8:55 a.m.

Cyrilda Poirier President, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, my name is Cyrilda Poirier. I am President of the Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador, or FFTNL. Beside me is our director general, Gaël Corbineau.

First, we want to thank you for your invitation to appear, thereby giving our community the opportunity to express its views on the roadmap.

Since 1973, the FFTNL has been working for the advancement, development and recognition of the francophone and Acadian communities in our province. Today, the federation has six members, three of which represent the principal French-speaking regions of the province, and three other provincial organizations working in early childhood and youth development, and in economic development.

With a presence dating back more than 500 years, our communities today are mostly found in three regions, separated from each other by distances from 800 kiilometres to 2,100 kiilometres. You can guess, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, that, for us, geographical distance is a major handicap.

According to the 2011 census, our community represents 0.6% of the provincial population. In addition, about 25,000 people in the province are bilingual.

Mr. Chair, you asked us here to describe the positive aspects and the challenges associated with the roadmaps of 2008-13 and 2013-18.

With no shadow of a doubt, we can state the following. The interdepartmental approach that the successive roadmaps have made possible has without doubt assisted our development in all our principal areas by emphasizing the responsibilities of all federal departments in the development of our communities, and doing so with quantifiable commitments.

Of course, the roadmaps address many community sectors; given the limited time we have this morning, I will not have time to list them in detail.

Let us start with the positive aspects of the recent years. I will specifically mention the significant improvements in health care in French and in francophone immigration.

In health, investments in recent years have made a major contribution to the development of this sector to the benefit of our communities. Specifically, maintaining funding for the French-language Health Services Networks does not just allow health service activities for, and delivery directly to, the members of our communities. It also greatly enhances our ability to network and maintain relationships with provincial authorities and institutions with expertise in this area. This allows us to make our case with them and move forward.

I will not spend too much time now on the importance of francophone immigration for our communities, because that is on the agenda a little later this morning. However, I will say that the roadmaps have allowed the establishment of permanent francophone immigration networks. These finally allow us to work with less worry and a medium-term vision. Nevertheless, we have also faced challenges.

Without any doubt, the main challenge in these last 10 years was the initial launch of the 2013-18 roadmap. Many sectors had to wait for a long time—for too long a time—for the federal departments involved to establish their programs according to their responsibilities.

I have just talked about health. Health Canada took more than a year to implement its programs. That adversely affected many health networks across Canada, a good number of which had to let staff go, thereby losing the operational capacity and expertise that had been hard-won over the years.

In our province, the health network is a file that the FFTNL handles internally. We dearly wanted not to lose the only employee working in the area. We therefore had to compensate financially for the structural deficit that these unacceptable delays caused. Of course, that had to be done at the expense of our organization’s other files.

But things get worse. I will specifically single out Service Canada and Employment and Social Development Canada. That department has just allocated social development funds, in 2016, three years after the roadmap began, for seniors, youth, parents and women’s groups. The roadmap only lasts for five years, and it is simply unacceptable for the government to fail to allocate those funds until three years have gone by.

That does not make it easy to have a medium- or long-term vision; it puts a whole aspect of our community development at risk.

The behaviour gets even worse. Once again, Employment and Social Development Canada unfortunately gets the black mark. To this day, we still do not know where the funding for adult education and essential skills went. The department issued a call for proposals two or three years ago, but we have had no news since.

In the Atlantic provinces, where 42% of the population has problems with literacy, we find it difficult to accept the explanation that this kind of investment no longer has any use. Because of it, our organization has lost precious support from the Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences, often known by its acronym RESDAC. The network, whose mission is to mobilize its partners around strategies designed to improve literacy and skill levels among francophone adults, no longer has the means to help us today as it was able to in the past.

A province like ours has no organization dedicated to that area. So there is a lack of expertise that deprives us of precious support. The contradiction is that the funds are identified in the roadmap. But where have they gone? Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, the department will be harming our communities if it does not change its approach.

Let us now talk about the future, and the particularly pressing needs that we see for the period from 2018 to 2023. It is impossible for me not to repeat what I said a moment ago about the major needs for literacy and essential skills. Ignoring such a large proportion of Canadians would simply be going counter to the values on which our society was founded. I also want to point out the virtual lack of Justice Canada investment in our province. You are certainly all aware that a judge from Newfoundland and Labrador was recently appointed to the Supreme Court of Canada. For us, it was a time to recognize that justice in French does not exist.

We are in dire need of the means to provide legal aid in French to our citizens, but also the means to identify and encourage French-speaking lawyers. To us, it seems urgent for Justice Canada to draw up an action plan so that the provinces and territories, still deprived of everything in this area, can quickly respond to the needs of their francophone communities.

I will also mention the lack of core funding for our national association in this area, the Fédération des associations de juristes d'expression française de common law inc., or FAJEF. Although a strong national organization is indispensable for us in our provinces, the federation receives anemic financing that allows its office staff to work only one day a week. I hope you will agree, ladies and gentlemen, that this is a highly irregular situation that cannot be allowed to continue.

Investments in community infrastructures are without doubt a topic that will occupy a lot of our attention in the coming years in Newfoundland and Labrador. Since 2015, we have been in a long period of identifying the needs. The main one is for early childhood and community activity centres. In many cases, they could be combined with schools, and therefore with the provincial government. In both traditional and emerging communities, our needs are great.

Yes indeed, ladies and gentlemen, we have emerging communities; they are proof of the dynamism of our communities and the result of the efforts in the last 40 years to promote the country's bilingualism, and francophone and Acadian cultural identity. However, now is not the time to abandon those citizens, who also have needs and rights. So that leads to the very problematic status quo, in effect since 2004, of our budgets from the province for the core funding of our organizations.

For more than 12 years now, inflation has done its work and mathematically reduced the operational capacities of our community organizations. A number of them have very few opportunities to diversify their income; today, they are struggling to keep their staff, without even the means to pay for one full-time position. So we are losing our vital lifeblood on which the vitality of our communities depends, especially in rural regions. I do not have to tell you that, in Newfoundland and Labrador, that status quo has never allowed us to serve our emerging communities, which does considerable harm to our development.

As the time I was given has likely run out, I will conclude my presentation here.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, on behalf of the francophones of Newfoundland and Labrador, we thank you for your attention.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you very much, Ms. Poirier.

We now move immediately to the period for questions and comments.

Mr. Généreux, you have six minutes.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Ms. Poirier and Mr. Corbineau.

Ms. Poirier, things really are not going well at all!

You clearly seem to be facing a lot of difficulties.

So will a new roadmap restore your hope for the future?

There were difficulties when the roadmap was launched. That took three years. But it is now done.

Do you feel that, in the new roadmap, the wheel will keep turning from now on, or are you going to be facing the same difficulties?

9:05 a.m.

President, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Cyrilda Poirier

You said earlier that things are not going well. The description we provided was accurate. That said, we will never lose hope. If we did, we would shut up shop.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Going back to—

9:05 a.m.

President, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Cyrilda Poirier

Going back to the roadmap and to answer your question, we are hopeful that it will be launched in 2018, as scheduled. Given all the consultations we have held, I feel that things augur well for the future—and I think that is Gaël's opinion too.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Okay.

You alluded to the province earlier.

What is the relationship between the province and the feds in terms of implementation?

As I understand it, money was allocated to the province, but you never found out where it went, especially the money for adult education.

Federal money is transferred to the provinces in the great majority of cases and is then redistributed into a number of areas of activity related to the francophonie.

Are you telling us that there is no accountability at all?

9:05 a.m.

President, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Cyrilda Poirier

In the case of the federal-provincial agreements, I would not say that there is no accountability. I would say that accountability is at a minimum, and it is difficult, even for an organization like ours, to find out where that money goes.

I will use the Official Languages in Education Program as an example. It is a federal-provincial agreement. Actually, I will let Mr. Corbineau speak to this, because he works more in the operational area. He will be able to handle the question more technically.

9:05 a.m.

Gaël Corbineau Director General, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Clearly, with federal-provincial agreements, the accountability must be improved. There could certainly be a debate about that.

To answer your question specifically, these are not funds transferred to the provinces. These are federal funds earmarked for education. For literacy, the situation is quite unique in terms of the division of jurisdictions. Those funds were distributed by Service Canada—formerly HRSDC and now Employment and Social Development Canada—to community organizations through the OLES, the Office of Literacy and Essential Skills.

Two or three years ago, there was a national call for proposals. We never heard what happened then: who got the contract, and so on. RESDAC, another organization of which we are a member, had the previous contract. Their activities covered the entire country.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Are you saying that the program has not been available to you for three years?

9:05 a.m.

Director General, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Gaël Corbineau

We no longer have RESDAC's expertise, as they have practically no funding any more. They no longer even have an office today because they operate elsewhere, thanks to some other modest funding. They have lost much of their operational capacity. RESDAC was a national organization that supported the provinces and territories. For us, it was an enormous support, given that we have no organization that works solely in this area. At home, we simply have no full-time expertise for it. The organization is no longer able to help us because it has lost its national funding. So, in this specific area, the provinces are not involved.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

In your opinion, why did they need three years to start up the roadmap?

Do you have any clues that leave you to believe that it is because of red tape?

What could the reasons be?

It is curious, but I have to tell you that, since our consultation began, this is the first time—unless I am mistaken—that witnesses have told us about a delay in the implementation of the roadmap. Perhaps there were difficulties here and there, but I do not understand how the implementation could take three years.

9:10 a.m.

Director General, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Gaël Corbineau

I feel that there are a number of factors. First, the consultations for the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018 were held very late, unlike what is happening now. At the moment, the consultations are being held one year earlier than in the process five years ago.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC

Right.

9:10 a.m.

Director General, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Gaël Corbineau

At the end of March 2013, when the new roadmap was announced, with a supposed starting date of April 1, were they ready? Clearly not. The government of the time wanted to look at certain aspects again. You cannot criticize a government of any kind for wondering whether it is doing things correctly and whether something needs to be changed. Unfortunately, on April 1, it was not ready. If I recall correctly, the roadmap was announced on March 24 or 28, approximately. The programs were not ready.

I can confirm the story about three-year funding. There were a lot of questions about how the funds were supposed to be distributed. National community organizations—not ours—were approached to distribute the money. That was last year, shortly before the elections, I must say, not wanting to be political. They wanted to get rid of the amount set aside in the roadmap. Under those conditions, the organizations first stalled, saying, for example, that it was not up to francophone organizations to divide up the envelope among francophones outside Quebec and anglophones in Quebec. That was a point of discussion.

I recently signed the first funding agreements for seniors. We are one of the first provinces to receive funding. I signed them three weeks ago, I think. These are the first sums of money for that purpose that come from the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018. It involves four groups that are working together and that are dividing up the envelope: seniors, parents, youth, and women.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you, Mr. Corbineau.

The floor now goes to Darrell Samson.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS

I will give my turn to Ms. Lapointe.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Go ahead, Ms. Lapointe.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, and welcome to our witnesses. Like all my colleagues, I am happy that you are here with us. I was lucky enough to go to Saint John, New Brunswick, with the Standing Committee on International Trade.

I have done a little reading about demographics and the Maritimes are where the smallest number of francophones are to be found. I am pleased that you are here.

You say that there are three places with francophone communities and they are a very long way from each other. They make up 0.6% of the population. How many people is that?

9:10 a.m.

Director General, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Gaël Corbineau

In the last census, it was 3,015 people.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

You were saying that 25,000 people are bilingual.

9:10 a.m.

Director General, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Gaël Corbineau

That is the official number, according to Statistics Canada.

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Linda Lapointe Liberal Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC

You mentioned between 800 and 2,800. So it is quite a challenge to keep things going.

Witnesses who have come to see us have stated that, sometimes, francophone community services are provided by anglophone organizations. Is that something you have seen?

9:10 a.m.

Director General, Fédération des francophones de Terre-Neuve et du Labrador

Gaël Corbineau

It can happen that we have projects in partnership with anglophone analysts; translating legal documents, for example, or for seniors and health. It happens, but they are real partnerships and we distribute the information in French. No anglophone organization provides bilingual services on a permanent basis.