Official Languages Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2017

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

No, I know. I am not saying that either.

[Carl Trottier]

It is really not like that.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I am wondering what steps are taken once challenges are identified.

The reason I said it is random is that some indicate that it is an ongoing, perennial challenge, and they wash their hands of it.

[Carl Trottier]

Deputy heads are responsible for identifying the challenge and finding ways of addressing the shortcoming. That is the first step.

For our part, we take a very broad view of the environment. If we identify systemic problems that are present in many departments, that means there is a problem. It means that the policy may not be sufficient, that it might have to be enhanced or changed, or perhaps those departments need tools that they do not have at that time in order to take action.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

That is what I am getting at. Who determines that? How are departments supported in meeting the challenge?

[Carl Trottier]

At the horizontal level, we support them. We look at their record and identify systemic problems.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Are you satisfied with the data you have? Are you able to do your work? Are you able to identify the departments that have challenges and ensure that they will meet those challenges?

[Carsten Quell]

I could perhaps send you the official languages annual report of the President of the Treasury Board. The support activities are indicated at the end. A working group on language training and a working group on active offer are examples of the measures departments may take. A working group is created based on the recognition, drawing in particular on the findings of the reviews, that there are issues to be evaluated at the horizontal level. Moreover, the departmental officials we meet with on a regular basis are well aware of how their institution is doing as regards their mandate and the official languages.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Can we—

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Lefebvre—

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Is my time up already, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Yes.

I would like to ask for a clarification. I understand there is a self-evaluation. I also understand that you rely to a certain extent on the evaluation reports submitted to you by deputy ministers. Are you not a watchdog in that regard, or do you simply trust without question the reports you receive?

[Carl Trottier]

It's somewhere in between. We are not a watchdog, but we do not trust blindly either.

The mandate we received from Treasury Board is in fact just as we described it: to establish a policy, then conduct an evaluation and offer support to the departments. That is the role we play.

Moreover, as I said earlier, the deputy ministers are responsible for implementation. We have to let them play that role and then measure the results. We work with deputy ministers to identify problem areas. As Mr. Quell said earlier, steps have been taken to encourage them to respond to the current requirements or to step up their efforts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

From what I understand, the committee members expect to see a bit more involvement from you, a bit more energy put into your work.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

Good morning, gentlemen. I am pleased to see you here again.

That said, the more you talk, the more you lose me. There are some concepts I have a lot of trouble understanding, including self-evaluation. I think we all agree on that. If I evaluate myself, I would say good things all around. I am perfectly bilingual: I know the words for “yes”, “no”, “toaster”, and so forth.

I do not understand why evaluation is not mandatory. Self-evaluations should not even be used, especially in Ottawa. Evaluations should be conducted by third parties. We cannot let institutions self-evaluate and then report that everything is going smoothly. The fact is that everything is not going smoothly in 2017.

You said something else that I—

[Carl Trottier]

Can I respond to that?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Yes, go ahead.

[Carl Trottier]

We are not trying to be difficult. I just want to make that clear. We are trying to explain the mandate that we were given under a Treasury Board decision. We are required to act in accordance with that decision. That is what we are doing. As to whether there is a better approach, that is clearly not up to us as public servants to decide.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Okay.

[Carl Trottier]

We act in accordance with—

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

...the mandate you have been given.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Yet you make recommendations.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Yes.

Suppose we were to ask you to recommend to a superior that more specific evaluations be conducted as opposed to self-evaluations. Would it be within your scope to make such a recommendation? Is that your role?

[Carl Trottier]

I think that is something for you to discuss.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Okay.