Official Languages Committee on Feb. 28th, 2018

[Marie-France Lapierre]

Earlier you asked about the distribution of francophones in the province. I simply want to say that at a meeting of our board of directors last week, we learned that we had received four requests asking for new schools to be opened in the province. Clearly we cannot open four schools at the same time. If the census provided more data, we could determine where the needs are greatest. So that is really important for us.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Fine.

Mrs. Asselin, did you want to add a few words?

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

We are talking about amending the structure, that is to say including permanent legislative measures so that the province does not forget about us. For instance, in 2014 the province offered a lot of funding to open new day care spaces, but up till now, only two projects involved francophones. Why? Because there is no provision to provide funds directly to francophones. We always have to proceed via calls for tender. Then we are on the same footing as anglophones, and our respective projects compete. If our francophone community needs a day care for infants, for instance, and the province gives priority to day cares for children from 3 to 4 years of age in a more anglophone region, our project will be denied because it does not fit into the province's action plan.

If the Official Languages Act were modernized and included a permanent provision reflecting the importance given to early childhood, the funds allocated by the province to that end could really be used to meet francophone needs. This would mean that we would not have to compete with the rest of the population.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Forgive me for interrupting you.

Mr. Dan Vandal now has the floor.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you.

My name is Daniel Vandal and I represent the riding of Saint-Boniface—Saint-Vital in the city of Winnipeg. I believe we met on a few other occasions. I grew up in a village outside Winnipeg, and my first language was French. When I moved to Winnipeg, I could not speak English, believe it or not. Twelve years later, I could no longer speak French; I never went to a French-language school.

However, when I went into public life, I began to speak French again. I had the good fortune of being able to build on what I had acquired. I simply needed to continue speaking French in order to improve. My children grew up in French. So, that is my story.

Ms. Lavoie, as you know we signed bilateral agreements. Friday, on behalf of the minister, I announced that an agreement had been concluded with Manitoba. I believe that British Columbia announced the signing of a similar agreement on the same day.

What do you think about these bilateral agreements? What could we do better in future?

[Marie-Pierre Lavoie]

The bilateral agreement focuses particular attention on the shortage of early childhood educators, and that is essential. That is one of the things we lack. However, it does not mention capital assets and infrastructure. Nor does it plan for the creation of new spaces for francophones specifically. That is what we need the most.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I see.

Do the Conseil scolaire francophone representatives have something else to add?

[Marc-André Ouellette]

I would like to support what Ms. Lavoie said. We are being offered very little in this agreement. On the one hand, the 1.5% investment for the training of educators is calculated on the basis of population data, but we see on the other hand that the assimilation rate is higher. And so, the investment calculations need to take more criteria into account if we want to train more early childhood educators.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

It's 1.5%...

[Marc-André Ouellette]

It is 1.5% of the $153 million allocated to training educators.

To answer Mr. Samson's question, we are being offered free translation of this agreement. Bravo! We are making great progress! I can't get over it!

That is what they are offering us. The officials will provide a brief information session to tell us about what they will be providing—that is not a consultation about our needs.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

You are talking about the province.

[Marc-André Ouellette]

Yes, the province. The federal government took a step ahead, and we thank it very much.

I'd like to go back to the point Mrs. Boucher raised earlier. Political affiliations do not matter when we talk about the French language. However, there are governments that do more than others to preserve it.

We are off on the right foot and there is good energy. However, as Mr. Samson said earlier, we need to work together.

If you were not here, in British Columbia, we would not be here either. That is how it works.

[Marie-France Lapierre]

That is why we have to change the law.

[Marc-André Ouellette]

Indeed.

Adding a provision to the act about early childhood education would represent great progress.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Mr. Laberge, did you have something to add?

[Yvon Laberge]

I would simply like to support what has been said concerning the need to train early childhood educators.

It is all well and good to provide more spaces, but if the people who provide the services are not competent, the quality of the language may suffer, and we will not reach the objectives we have set for ourselves.

That said, insofar as infrastructure is concerned, we are talking about creating businesses, but in a collegial way. We don't have any physical locations aside from premises we continually have to rent. I will give you an example. We just left a campus we had been on for over 20 years. During those 20 years, we invested approximately $6 million in rent. That money could have been used in other ways, for instance to improve the program and that type of service. Currently, we are continuing to rent all of the spaces we occupy, and I can tell you that it is expensive.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Ms. Ky, what is the average annual salary for people who work in day cares?

[Jocelyne Ky]

At this time, a qualified educator earns $17 an hour, on the average. A director earns $22 an hour, median wage.

Here is what happens. These are often non-profit centres. Each centre is managed by small volunteer parent associations. Often there are no pension plans, and there is really nothing attractive about the profession. We ask a lot from the educators; they often work long hours, in difficult conditions, without any real compensation. So these jobs are not really attractive.

What I have seen over the past few years is that not only do we have trouble recruiting new educators, but many of them leave the profession.

They work between three and five years in the profession, and then they leave because it's not worth it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We will continue with Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

My name is Bernard Généreux, and I am the member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, in the Lower St. Lawrence region, close to Quebec City.

Thank you very much for being here this morning.

I will not repeat everything that was said, but I want to join Mr. Samson in congratulating you for the work you do on a daily basis to advance the cause of French in the province of British Columbia.

In light of some of the figures mentioned this morning, we must recognize that you have done extraordinary work moving things forward despite the conditions you must work in. Given those conditions and with the means at your disposal, having gone from 1,700 students to 6,000 is fantastic.

I'd like to ask a question. and perhaps Ms. Lapierre could answer it.

If I am not mistaken. according to the federal-provincial report, certain sums are allocated to education throughout Canada through agreements that already exist. I'm not talking about new laws or new agreements but about what is already in place. British Columbia receives money from the federal government to teach French.

How is it that the disbursement of that money is not clearly tracked using existing accountability rules? Do you get the impression that this money is given to British Columbia, but is not distributed as it should be?

[Marc-André Ouellette]

You must be talking about the Official Languages in Education Program, the OLEP.

Thanks to the OLEP, the province receives about $6 million a year for education. Out of this amount, the CSF receives approximately $4,433,000.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

So that is about 70%.

[Marc-André Ouellette]

Not even.

The national average is about 60-40, when you deduct costs. It is about 60% for the first language and 40% for the second one. In British Columbia, you can invert those numbers because for one reason or another we are not included.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I see.

And does the province provide any explanation for that?

[Marc-André Ouellette]

No. We ask for explanations, but we are not given any.