Official Languages Committee on April 13th, 2021

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank our witnesses for being with us.

My first question is for Ms. Risbud of the Association canadienne-française de l'Alberta.

Ms. Risbud, I'm very pleased to learn that the francophone population has increased, and doubled in schools in recent years. Unfortunately, the shortage of teachers and the problems with Campus Saint-Jean, which trains teachers for those schools, seem to be creating a vicious circle.

You said that the federal government seemed open to increasing operational funding for Campus Saint-Jean. Apparently, however, they are facing resistance from the Alberta government. If you have to rely on Jason Kenney to make the right decisions, it's a little like the play Waiting for Godot: you might be waiting a very long time.

Do you think there's any way to get around the dollar-for-dollar matching contribution rule, and that the federal government could do what it did with the Université de l'Ontario français and provide the funding itself? The funding is absolutely crucial to ensuring the sustainability and survival of Campus Saint-Jean in Alberta.

[Sheila Risbud]

Yes, absolutely.

I believe there's definitely a way around that matched funding requirement. I am not familiar with all the funding programs, but in the case of the Université de l'Ontario français, the province did make a commitment afterwards. Certainly the commitment [Technical difficulties]. However, even if we're unable to get a commitment from the Alberta government, something has to be done about Campus Saint-Jean. If nothing is done in the next three years, we're going to have major issues. We can't wait for the Official Languages Act to be modernized.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I'm very happy to hear that. We also hope that the Official Languages Act will be modernized as soon as possible. However, the bill was tabled at the 11th hour.

Mr. Doucet, it's good to see you again.

You mentioned funding for advocacy organizations. In terms of funding for the core missions of organizations like yours, are things going fairly well, in your opinion? Or are Acadian cultural groups, for example, or New Brunswick groups in general, facing problems? I ask the question because I don't know the answer.

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

Things are going well in general. Our funding was just renewed for three years.

However, we often forget what happened in the past. During the last economic crisis, we faced significant cutbacks. Funding for organizations was affected, especially for advocacy organizations. Right now, we are in a pandemic, but the post-pandemic period is coming, and my biggest fear is that funding for organizations will be affected at that time.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

The last time you appeared before this committee, you said that your organization, the Société de l'Acadie du Nouveau-Brunswick, felt that the Official Languages Act needed to recognize the specific nature of New Brunswick. They seem willing to move in that direction, but they will have to produce a bill some day.

Do you feel the bill should include other characteristics, specific to the Acadians of New Brunswick?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

Yes, we have always asked that the specific nature be included in the preamble, so as to tie this in, as I said earlier, with Part IV of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which covers the provision of services, as Mr. Beaulieu said, and with Part VII, which covers immigration. Let's not forget that section 95 of the Constitution Act, 1867, provides that immigration is a shared jurisdiction. So we have always pushed for New Brunswick to have its own department, as is the case with Quebec, which created its own in the 1990s.

As for Part VII, we are asking that the specific nature be added with respect to post-secondary institutions and educational institutions in general, such as the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick or the Université de Moncton.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

You would be amenable to an immigration system similar to Quebec's, that is, the province would select economic immigrants, but refugee and family reunification cases would continue to be processed by the federal government. Is that correct?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

We are looking at that model, yes, but we have no agreement at the moment to go out and get more funding. The office responsible for immigration in New Brunswick has only six or seven employees, so it can't even handle francophone immigration files separately. They have to process English and French immigration files at the same time, and they are not at all alike.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Right.

Earlier, you mentioned that people have recently been talking, and rightly so, about the massacre, the fiasco, at Laurentian University in Northern Ontario. I talk about it a lot myself. But you reminded us that the Université de Moncton, as well as another educational institution that you mentioned, for example, were also facing difficulties and challenges.

I have about 45 seconds left. I'd like you to use that time to elaborate on your thoughts about this.

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

First, demographically, we are going to have some challenges. Today, admissions are not a major problem. In five years, however, we will have a major issue. That's what the studies that have been done on this are already telling us.

In addition, the current infrastructure is very outdated.

Finally, I could go on for hours about all the problems within our institutions.

With respect to the Université de Moncton, it's only a matter of time before programs are eliminated there. It's just that the public isn't aware of this state of affairs. I'm graduating from there in a week, so I know what's going on. We have been talking about this behind the scenes for a few years. Unfortunately, it's going to start happening soon.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Congratulations on your graduation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Doucet and Mr. Boulerice.

We now begin the final round of questions, starting with Mr. Godin.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for joining us. Please know that I appreciate you taking part.

Mr. Doucet, earlier in your presentation you said that, “Francophones across Canada are pleased that, at this time, the federal government is showing a genuine desire to focus on promoting the sustainability of French in this country”. I was pleased to hear that comment. However, I would like to know what you based that statement on.

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

We at the SANB are represented by the FCFA. They submitted a proposal for a bill two or three years ago. I believe that over 80% of the recommendations were accepted. The SANB also submitted a brief, and most of the recommendations were also accepted. That's why I said in my presentation that we were very happy to hear about the desire, or at least the intentions, that Minister Joly expressed.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Doucet. I'd like to think that concrete measures will be taken quickly. I hope it will reassure you to know that, should there ever be a change in government, we Conservatives would be ready to act very quickly, within our first 100 days.

I will now turn to Ms. Risbud.

You stated that, from 1991 to 2016, the number of Franco-Albertans increased by 50%. I feel those are great results. However, I found some of your other comments disturbing, and I will rephrase them in my own words: They have a foot on the oxygen line. By cutting off supplies, they are keeping the number of francophones using the language outside Quebec from going up. I feel that the current governments are using that approach. Not increasing a budget means decreasing it, given the cost of living index. The demand and the enrolment are there, but unfortunately, we don't feel that current governments are willing to [Technical difficulties].

What should be done most urgently to get results and stop the bleeding? In the past, it has worked. The numbers from 1991 to 2016 are proof of that. But right now, in Quebec and everywhere else, you can feel that French is declining. It's urgent that we take action. In your opinion, what would the top priority be? How could we get through to our governments and convince them to act swiftly?

[Sheila Risbud]

Once again, I will focus on post-secondary education and Campus Saint-Jean. The priority there is to review the funding the federal government provides to minority post-secondary institutions. Saying that it's in provincial jurisdiction and therefore a provincial responsibility will not work in a context where, as you say, the provincial government may not be ready to help us. The top priority would be to review the funding formula and increase funding for our post-secondary institutions.

I'd like to correct something. The growth that I talked about is in people who speak French. It's not just people whose first language is French, but also people who have learned French as a second language. That group has grown significantly in Alberta.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You are actually talking about francophiles, those who are attracted by the language and are learning it. You may be aware that, in other countries, speaking French is very much in vogue.

We shouldn't pit English and French against each other. We need to promote French and create pride. That is how things will more forward.

Ms. Risbud, do you feel that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry, Mr. Godin, but your time is up.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I hadn't noticed, Mr. Chair.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You don't have time to ask another question.

I now give the floor to Mrs. Lalonde and Mr. Duguid for five minutes.

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Chair, I will be speaking first, and I'll be sharing my time with Ms. Lalonde.

As I said earlier, I am from Manitoba, as is Mr. Mazier. As is the case in Alberta, demand for French education is growing rapidly and our education system is not keeping up. From what we've heard today, it's been a difficult year for Franco-Albertans and the ACF over the issue of chronic underfunding.

What future do you see for the Franco-Albertan community, and more largely, francophones in western Canada, if provincial governments seek to undermine the rights of franco-westerners through underfunding?

In response to some of the comments I've heard, I would be very worried if provinces abandoned their responsibilities with respect to higher education in this way. It could be a very slippery slope, and that, thankfully, hasn't happened in Manitoba.

Could you comment on that? I know there are former colleagues of Mr. Kenney's on this committee. What would be your message to him, through them, and how can all members of this committee forge federal-provincial co-operation in this area of French higher education?

[Sheila Risbud]

I will answer in French.

The assimilation of Canadian francophones outside Quebec is not a new phenomenon. We are seeing very high rates of assimilation in Alberta. If you speak French here, you are now part of the resistance.

We need the federal and provincial governments to support our efforts. That means the provinces must sit down together at the table to negotiate, but it also means that the federal government needs to play a bigger role than it has contemplated in the past. That's my opinion.

The message I would like to send to Mr. Kenney's government is that they must stop fighting the linguistic minority. Once they understand the importance of French and of bilingualism, they will have to support an institution that helps people become bilingual or improve their French.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Mrs. Lalonde, if you want to comment, you have two and a half minutes left.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

That's great, thank you very much.

My dear witnesses, thank you for joining us today. I am taking notes as you share your ideas and suggestions with us.

Ms. Risbud, I would like to go back to something you said: the provincial government is not prepared to help you. Personally, I find it interesting to see that, when provinces become conservative by democratic means, my colleagues in the Conservative Party try to find excuses instead of ways to work together. Since 2015, the Francophonie outside Quebec has seen no one but the federal government.

I'd like to hear you talk about your own experience. I feel that you are going to say the same thing as I do, that postsecondary studies in French are a fundamental pillar supporting the long-term viability of the French fact outside Quebec.

In your experience, therefore, and in terms of postsecondary studies in French, how can provincial governments cause negative consequences for the long-term viability of French in minority situations? That is what you are experiencing in Alberta, despite an increase in the number of francophones and of those who want to study in French.

[Sheila Risbud]

I was talking just now about the importance of the Campus Saint-Jean in training our teachers. So if we cannot train teachers, we won't have qualified staff in our schools. That's the first consequence. You can see what effect that can have.

The Campus Saint-Jean also trains people in other areas, health care professionals, for example. Others take political science there, as I did, or other subjects. If we are not able to study at home, we either go somewhere else to study in French or we stay in Alberta but study in English. I am not saying it's a bad thing to go somewhere else to study. But what often happens is that people do not come back to contribute to the vitality of their communities. Those who stay in Alberta but study in English will not perhaps choose to live in French or to raise their children in French.

Those are some examples of how important postsecondary institutions are in minority situations.