Official Languages Committee on April 27th, 2021

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

If no bill is introduced, do you consider this to be a failure on the part of the government?

[Alain Dupuis]

The expectations are very high, since we have been talking about this for four years. It is time to introduce a bill on the matter.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Ms. Forest, you talked about institutional completeness. What I understand by that is that linguistic groups with stronger institutions have a stronger power of attraction.

Does it make sense to you that the federal government allocates 40% of its funding to English-language universities in Quebec, which it also does with CEGEPs?

The federal government invests about $50 million in English-language elementary and secondary schools, but nothing in French-language schools. What do you think of the lack of symmetry with which we are still operating?

[Mariève Forest]

The data tends to show that it is not necessary to move towards that symmetry. When we look at the numbers, we see that less than 2% of post-secondary students study in French, whereas 3.8% are francophones. In Quebec, it's the opposite. There are about 14% anglophones but 20% to 25% are enrolled in anglophone universities and colleges.

It's a complex picture. We need more data than that.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Absolutely.

I would like to come back to what Mr. Jedwab said earlier. A number of studies have shown that francophones who attend English-language CEGEPs do not do so to learn English. They already know English very well. Rather, it is the pull of the workplace that drives them to attend English-language CEGEPs, which are heavily overfunded.

[Mariève Forest]

It's also a matter of prestige.

There are prestigious English colleges in Quebec, and McGill University. It goes beyond the prestige of English.

It is difficult to study the matter of attraction. How can we attract students to French-language institutions? It's a big question and it's worth examining very seriously.

[Jack Jedwab]

Quebeckers have a strong desire to be bilingual.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry. I have the thankless task of interrupting people when their time is up.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Ashton. Perhaps she will ask some questions along those lines.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to ask Mr. Dupuis a question about Minister Joly's statement.

You have seen the minister's discussion paper. Do you have any additional suggestions to make or shortcomings to point out? Do you think she is headed in the right direction?

[Alain Dupuis]

I think she is headed in the right direction. We were pleased to see that a central agency, the Treasury Board, was appointed to coordinate the official languages policy, to ensure that it is implemented and that there is accountability. It is important to ensure that the proposed legislation looks at this horizontal role. It must be entrusted to one single government agency.

In terms of language of work, we look forward to seeing whether francophones outside Quebec will be able to work in their language in the regions where the communities are. That is what we hope to see.

The powers of the Commissioner of Official Languages must be strengthened even more. The commissioner must be given the power to impose monetary penalties.

Finally, with respect to part VII of the act, we must not just wait for regulations. Clear principles must be defined in the Official Languages Act. It is important to clearly define positive measures, consultation, what “by and for francophones” means, and how we will support this principle.

It is also important to define the objective of the new policy for francophone immigration. Is the objective to restore the demographic weight of francophones or to increase it? Is it an objective for outside Quebec or for the francophonie all across the country, including Quebec? These are some of our questions.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Mr. Jedwab, did you want to add anything on that or on any other topic?

[Jack Jedwab]

I would like to briefly talk about bilingualism, if I may.

There is a paradox in the desire of Quebeckers to have it both ways, to be bilingual and to promote bilingualism outside Quebec. To illustrate this paradox, my daughter has a law degree from the Université de Montréal and my son is doing his master's degree in engineering at the Polytechnique, but the president of the Parti Québécois studied at McGill. The paradox is that francophones are attracted to the prestige of universities such as McGill, and anglophones, like my children, are graduating from the Université de Montréal.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Jedwab and Ms. Ashton.

With those words, we will conclude this meeting with the witnesses. I want to thank you very much for your participation.

We began with the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada. I want to thank Mr. Dupuis, director general, for making the presentation and answering questions, and Mr. Johnson, who also appeared as a witness.

Second, I want to thank the two witnesses who appeared as individuals: Dr. Mariève Forest, sociologist, president and founder of Sociopol and visiting professor at the University of Ottawa, and Dr. Jack Jedwab, president and chief executive officer, Immigration and Identities, Association for Canadian Studies and Canadian Institute for Identities and Migration.

Again, if you have any information to forward to us, please feel free to send it to the clerk. I wish you a great rest of your evening.

We will now go in camera.

[Proceedings continue in camera]