Official Languages Committee on June 1st, 2021

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I would like to return to two points of order that were made.

Earlier, Mr. Boulerice asked a very legitimate question. We know that in the white paper there are commitments to post-secondary education. That is what we are talking about today, and we want the federal government to take a leadership role.

Mr. Boulerice's question was a good one, as was Mr. Dalton's, who asked why the minister did not decide to convey funds unilaterally. He gave an example that may have bothered my Liberal colleagues, who are not proud of it. But the fact remains that the question is very relevant: why is the federal government not playing its leadership role?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Blaney, I understand what you are saying. However, when I spoke on Mr. Boulerice's question, I said that we were talking about introducing bills. I know there is some connection to the topic we are discussing.

However, we are talking about Loblaws and other topics, and I would ask all members to try to ask questions based on our agenda. We are talking about post-secondary education and we need to try to stay on topic.

Mr. Godin now has a point of order.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think that as parliamentarians we can use terms, situations and contexts that lead us to the main topic. I think we have that right as parliamentarians. I would like my colleagues in the governing party to respect that practice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Of course. As usual, the committee is functioning well. I am appealing to your co-operation to keep it that way, as we are debating an extremely important issue.

That said, I will recognize Mr. Serré for the next five minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, thank you for your support for francophones in Northern Ontario. I sincerely thank you for working with Laurentian University to find a solution. In addition, I thank you very much for creating the Place des Arts du Grand Sudbury for the francophone and anglophone communities.

As a Laurentian University graduate, I was extremely upset, astounded and frustrated, when I learned of the cuts to Laurentian University that were announced on April 12. Many students and families have suffered the consequences.

Minister, in this committee, we often talk about responsibilities and roles. Right now, there is a working group that wants to make the University of Sudbury the French-language university of mid-north Ontario. What advice would you give to this task force?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you for your question.

I have had the opportunity to speak to various members of the group that has a mandate to strengthen the University of Sudbury. Because the francophone community is in a minority situation, there is a need for community leaders to talk to each other and get organized to find a solution. I told them to talk to people like Dyane Adam and Carol Jolin from AFO, and all the different leaders who work in post-secondary education.

It's important to have a coherent position. That's what happened with the University of French Ontario. This university was created because there was unanimity on the issue, and it is that sort of consensus that will help the community come up with a project. We are putting $5 million aside for francophone programs because we want people to know that we will be there to help them, even if the discussions are still ongoing and even if they have to get organized. We will invest money to support the creation of this project.

You don't create a university overnight, especially when it's a new one. It takes some expertise in the field and it takes a lot of work. You also have to work with the province, because it has the power to introduce legislation and provides a lot of the funding for programming. That's why we wanted to give these folk some kind of financial comfort so they can move forward.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you for your response.

The opposition members on this committee, particularly Mr. Angus, who is a Northern Ontario MPP, have only repeated that we knew that Laurentian University was going to come under the protection of the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act. As you said, that is not true at all.

Mr. Lefebvre and I have met with Laurentian University officials, as we have since 2015. We are working hard with Laurentian University and we have discussed their concerns. However, no one in the community, including Mr. Lefebvre and myself, thought the university would go to court. The opposition says that we knew about this. This is not true, and political games are being played on the backs of Laurentian University employees and students.

Some people say we can stop this legal process. Can the federal government do that? Have you taken any steps in that direction?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

No, it can't. Of course, this is the lawyer in me talking to you. The courts are independent; there is independence in the judicial system.

In April, when I first talked to President Haché, I asked him why he hadn't come to us and talked to us about it. I told him that we could have worked with him. I asked him if he had talked to the province. He said yes, and that the province was very aware of the situation.

In short, that decision was made by the province, and it was basically to push Laurentian University into the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act. I find that unfortunate.

Now, the damage is done and we have to get into solution mode. So that's why I will gladly work with my counterparts, Caroline Mulroney and Ross Romano, so that we can find a solution by and for francophones.

At the time, there were only bilingual universities, especially in Ontario. The University of French Ontario was the first institution administered by francophones and for francophones in Ontario. We can, therefore, found a second one.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I thank you for working with the province to find a solution. We are doing the same locally. We need to continue to find solutions. We need to continue to help our francophones and our post-secondary institutions.

Thank you very much.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Serré. That's all the time you had.

As we had discussed with the team, the analyst and the clerk, the minister has to leave the meeting at 5:00 o'clock. So we have two two-and-a-half-minute slots left, the first being for Mr. Beaulieu and the second for Mr. Boulerice.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you. I will hurry.

Madam Minister, earlier, you refused to comment on the extravagant funding for anglophone post-secondary educational institutions provided by the federal government, by saying that your department is not responsible for it. However, you gave the example of grants under the official languages program to Bishop's University and Université Laval. I asked you a question earlier about the fact that the Government of Quebec is asking that all positive measures be done with Quebec's consent. There are a whole series of requests in relation to the reform of the Official Languages Act.

Could you tell me one of Quebec's requests on which you agree?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We agree with a number of requests from Quebec. Recognizing that French is a minority language is one of them. There are a number.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That is not a measure.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Supporting francophone communities in minority situations is another request on which we agree.

You talk to me a lot about the extravagant funding for anglophone universities in Quebec. That issue is bigger than me, Mr. Beaulieu. Maybe you should ask the leader of the Parti Québécois, a McGill University graduate, why he studied, why he was entitled to study, in English in a post-secondary educational institution in Quebec. He claims—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Your answer is a little simplistic.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

My answer is not simplistic. It simply shows the moral leadership.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Even the leader of the Parti Québécois feels that there should be equitable funding for francophone universities—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It's the same for Martine Ouellet. She is a McGill University graduate. I can give you a lot of other examples.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Fine, but it's very easy to give individual examples.

You haven't told me about any of the measures. You have only told me about general principles. It's easy to say that you want to stand up for French. However, when the time comes for action, you do nothing.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

For federal companies, we will reach an agreement with the Government of Quebec. We recognize the right to work in French, the right to be served in French, and the right not to be discriminated against in federal companies.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I have another question for you. At the moment, the Quebec component of the Action Plan for Official Languages 2018-2023: Investing in Our Future, provides funding only for the English side in all kinds of ways, anglophone pressure groups, and so on.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

That is not true. We give $600 million per year to the Government of Quebec for integration—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In the official languages program—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

One person at a time. You have 15 seconds left.