Official Languages Committee on June 3rd, 2021

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'd like to let Ms. Chouinard answer my question. I'd like to know whether she thinks it would be appropriate to conduct studies on institutional completeness across Canada, including in Quebec.

[Stéphanie Chouinard]

Yes, absolutely. They're a tool that's not merely theoretical and that has proven itself. It would help us demonstrate, based on data, what the deficiencies are, where they are and how they could the more effectively corrected in order to meet the community's current needs more effectively, notwithstanding constitutional prescriptions.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I don't think anyone has ever really conducted a study that established the percentage of funding relative to the percentage of francophones for francophone universities outside Quebec.

[Stéphanie Chouinard]

No, and it would be difficult to conduct that kind of study.

As regards federal funding to the provinces, for example, we know very well the amounts that are received. However, we don't know what they're used for or what percentage of that funding goes directly to minority institutions. That's an issue at the primary and secondary levels and at the postsecondary level as well. I see some of you agree with that. This could shed light on a few issues our communities have been dealing with for many years.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

All right. My next question is for Mr. Lacroix.

What impact does the overfunding of English-language postsecondary institutions in Montreal have on that city's language dynamic?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 30 seconds, Mr. Lacroix.

[Frédéric Lacroix]

English-language universities are on the rise in Montreal and occupy nearly half the institutional space there. Federal funding is one of the keys to the rise of McGill University, and Concordia University, in particular. Those two institutions will attract increasing numbers of students, and their funding applications are enormously successful. They're a wheel in motion: previous success with funding applications also guarantees increasing success in future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

[Frédéric Lacroix]

I think you have to take that into consideration.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lacroix.

The last speaker is Mr. Boulerice.

You have the floor for two minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair

Good evening to all the witnesses.

My first question is for Ms. Chouinard

Do you think that federal investments in postsecondary education are enough to enable minority francophone institutions to achieve substantive equality?

[Stéphanie Chouinard]

I think federal government investment could be increased. If it is, however, you have to make sure it doesn't work to the benefit of the provinces, which might then decide to invest less in our institutions.

It's all about the money; that's really it. You have to make sure all additional funding that comes from Ottawa doesn't result in a decline in Edmonton, Toronto or Fredericton, for example.

That really has to be the focus if we want the federal government to invest more. It has to be structural, and it has to be long term, not on a case-by-case basis, as we've seen in recent years. You have to make sure that the province is also responsible for its part in this jurisdiction.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Yes, that's quite clear. We don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul because that'll ultimately get us nowhere.

Should we establish more accountability and transparency mechanisms?

I think you addressed this question briefly in your previous answers.

[Stéphanie Chouinard]

There should be more, absolutely. Part of the funding granted for official languages disappears in provincial budgets. However, it should be used as additional funding, not core funding. This is a serious problem. If we had better accountability for education funding focused on official languages, we could ensure that funding from Ottawa is spent where it should be spent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Boulerice. That's all the time we have.

Now we must thank the witnesses for taking part in this study on federal support for French-language or bilingual postsecondary institutions in a minority situation.

Stéphanie Chouinard, you are an assistant professor in the Department of political science at the Royal Military College of Canada and in the Department of Political Studies at Queen's University. Thank you.

Frédéric Lacroix, essayist, thank you.

We also thank, from Laurentian University, Robert Haché, president and vice-chancellor, and Marie-Josée Berger, provost and vice-president, academic.

Once again, thank you.

Colleagues, we will take a brief pause to see off the witnesses who are here. Then we will welcome more witnesses for the next hour.

I suspend for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Good evening, we will resume.

For the benefit of the witnesses who just joined us, I will repeat a few simple guidelines.

First, I would like to inform you that screenshots or taking photos of your screen is not permitted. Like members, witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice because interpretation services are available. Lastly, I would ask you to direct your questions to the Chair. Thank you.

For the second part, we have Denis Constantineau, from the Northern Ontario Coalition for a French-language University, and Pierre Riopel, Chairman of the Council of Regents of the University of Sudbury.

Mr. Constantineau, you will be first to take the floor. You will have five minutes to make your opening statement, and I will inform you when you have one minute left or when your time is up.

We will then move on to Mr. Riopel.

Mr. Constantineau, please activate your mic and begin your statement.

[Denis Constantineau, Northern Ontario Coalition for a French-language University]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On behalf of the Northern Ontario Coalition for a French-language University, I'd like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak to you about the disastrous situation in which university education in French in Sudbury finds itself at the moment, further to unilateral decisions made by the supposedly bilingual Laurentian University, about the repercussions of its decisions, and the solution looming on the horizon.

The coalition has rallied institutions, individuals and organizations active in a variety of sectors in greater Sudbury and northern Ontario. It was established through PlanifSudbury, a francophone issue table, in response to the current events at Laurentian.

In February, as you have already heard, Laurentian invoked the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act on grounds that it was facing unprecedented financial challenges. This announcement sent a shock wave through our community.

As we feared, on April 12,Laurentian announced that it was eliminating 28 French-language programs, accounting for 40% of the 69 programs that were axed. By doing so, Laurentian failed to meet its commitments to the francophone community and lost its confidence. This measure put an end to dynamic programs that played a role in creating the contemporary Franco-Ontarian identity.

Laurentian University history professor Gaétan Gervais, together with Michel Dupuis and Jacqueline England, created our Franco-Ontarian flag, which was raised for the first time on the University of Sudbury campus in 1975.

Programs in French studies, francophone literature and culture, and theatre, also disappeared. They educated generations of young adults who pursued careers in the arts, education and cultural facilitation. The Théâtre du Nouvel-Ontario, the Éditions Prise de parole publishing company, and the CANO-Musique cooperative were born there. They were the pioneers of what we now recognize as the key components of our community and of French-speaking Ontario as a whole.

By eliminating these programs, Laurentian University is depriving the community of its future leaders. By dismissing all the professors working in these 28 programs, it has stripped the francophone community of the sources of knowledge and research essential to its development.

It is also forcing many young francophones and francophiles to pursue their university studies elsewhere in Ontario, with all of the additional expenses this requires. It intensifies the regional exodus of young people to major cities, a problem all too common already in communities across the country.

These events illustrate the limitations of bilingual educational institutions. As federal transfer payments for official language minorities are never accompanied by an accountability framework, it's not surprising to hear that French money is being used to clear our snow-covered sidewalks.

Recruitment and promotion for French-language programs are not always a priority for bilingual institutions. Laurentian has been slacking off in this regard for several years. Despite all the efforts, resources made available to those in charge of these tasks were laughable. That's why francophones in our region have been demanding the creation of a French-only university for 50 years.

It was in the wake of these events that the University of Sudbury announced on March 11 that it wanted to become a university designed by, for and with francophones. It turned over its two available charters to the francophone and indigenous communities so that they could establish their own institutions. Our coalition is working to achieve this objective and has formulated the recommendations that follow.

First of all, we suggest that all French-language programs at Laurentian,that were not eliminated, be transferred fully and immediately to the University of Sudbury.

We would also like federal transfer payments for official-language minorities that were formerly paid to Laurentian to be immediately transferred to the University of Sudbury so that it can begin planning its curriculum.

In addition, the Ontario government needs to intervene and make sure that Laurentian's 2021-2022 programs go ahead and that it should suspend the announced cuts, so that it can obtain the funding required to keep its creditors at bay, and facilitate the transfer of the programs in question.

We further recommend that a provincial implementation board be given a mandate to establish a structure for the delivery of French-language university education in the North, to determine its programming and to design the working and learning environment for such an institution. This board could study the needs and involve future students in its work as part of the process of developing its programming. The board could submit a transition plan between the interim programs available and the opening of a French-language university for the North.

Lastly, we would like recognition for the importance of the indigenous studies programs offered for over 40 years at the University of Sudbury, and for steps to be taken to support indigenous communities to help them become sustainable.

Let's be clear, we do not want Laurentian to disappear. Our community needs this institution. However, we want a university that is entirely designed by, for and with francophones to stand proudly besideLaurentian.

Thank you. I'd be glad to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Constantineau.

I'd like to remind the witnesses that they can send us a brief via the clerk so that we can give it consideration as part of our study.

Mr. Riopel now has the floor for five minutes.

[Pierre Riopel, Chairman of the Council of Regents, University of Sudbury]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the members of the committee for having me, and for their interest in French-language postsecondary education in Mid-Northern Ontario.

I had a discussion with my colleague Denis Constantineau to prepare for this meeting and fully agree with what he said today.

My name is Pierre Riopel and I am Franco-Ontarian. I'm the Chairman of the Council of Regents at the University of Sudbury. My 30-year career in education has been as a school- and college-level administrator. One of my former colleagues is with us today.

I have the soul of a teacher, and would ask you to allow the history teacher I once was to give you a short history of the University of Sudbury, an institution that is dear to me.

In this history, there are four important dates.

The first is 1913. That's when the Jesuits founded Collège du Sacré-Cœur in Sudbury, a French-language classical college. This was against the background of Regulation 17, which prohibited education in French in Ontario.

Collège du Sacré-Cœur became Université de Sudbury in 1957. Everything was in French—administration and teaching.

In 1960, Laurentian University, A bilingual institution, opened its doors. That's when the Laurentian Federation was established, with the University of Sudbury as a member.

This model operated successfully for 60 years. However, we have all just witnessed the withdrawal of Laurentian University from the francophone side of things, but never more so that in the process unwinding publicly before the Superior Court of Ontario under the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act, the CCAA.

The final date is 2021. Under creditor protection, Laurentian University offhandedly and abruptly disbanded the Federation and massively cut back its programs to eliminate all kinds of services and jobs.

Rector Haché made some revealing admissions when he was cross-examined on April 23 as part of the CCAA process. The Laurentian University application under the CCAA is approximately 1,500 pages long in four volumes. No mention is made of the French Language Services Act. Rector Haché expressed no concern about Laurentian University's inability to continue to provide existing services in French. None! However, Laurentian University has since 2014 been designated under this program, which requires it to rigorously maintain specific French-language faculties and programs.

Moreover, by severing federative links between Laurentian and the University of Sudbury, the latter lost its ability to fulfil its obligations under its designation in the French Language Services Act. None of this appears in the legal documents presented by Rector Haché to the court.

Overnight, the University of Sudbury lost its right to teach students of the Laurentian Federation. Before Laurentian submitted its application under the CCAA, on February 1, there had been no consultation with the francophone community. Likewise, there was no consultation prior to the announcement by Laurentian University on April 12 of significant cuts to its French-language programs. The cuts are the outcome of financial calculations without regard to the repercussions of these decisions on students, teaching staff, employees and the entire community^x.

In light of these events, the University of Sudbury is currently focusing all its efforts on creating a new future. We have hired some legal consultants, including constitutional expert Mr. Ronald Caza; we adopted two resolutions on March 11, one of which is to transform the University of Sudbury into a French-language university. We also struck two special committees, one francophone and another for indigenous communities, and have established a francophone working group to develop a business plan with the assistance of PGF Consultants^x.

As my colleague Mr. Constantineau mentioned, we have received a great deal of community support. We also received a petition signed by more than 400 francophone professors from across Canada and around the world. A campaign was also set in motion by the Assemblée de la francophonie de l'Ontario, the AF0, which led to Rector Haché and the chair of the board of governors receiving 3,000 letters of support from individuals.

The time has come to realize this French-language university project, given that a university like this has been wanted, imagined and desired by several generations of Franco-Ontarians. The time has come to create our French-language university in Sudbury, by, for, and with the Franco-Ontarian community. It will be a historic occasion.

Thank you very much for your attention. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Riopel.

Thanks to both of you for coming in within the allotted time.

Without further ado, I now give the floor to Mr. Blaney for six minutes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Indeed, our two witnesses not only observed the time limits, but they gave us a ray of hope this afternoon by reminding us that in every crisis, there is an opportunity. It's heartening to see that there are some extremely serious people seeking solutions.

Gentlemen, you have heard the questions I asked Mr. Haché, who appeared to be saying that everything was going well…[Technical difficulty]

[The Clerk]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair.

There seems to be sound on Zoom, but there's none in the room. That means the interpreters don't have access.

Could you suspend the meeting for a few moments, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We are now resuming our work.

Mr. Blaney was asking a question.

Mr. Blaney, you have the floor for four and a half minutes.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

My question is for Mr. Riopel and for Mr. Constantineau.

Laurentian University appears to be saying that the process can be set in motion. It would appear that in September, things will continue at Laurentian.

When do you think you would be ready to take over at the northern Ontario francophone university, and what are your expectations from the federal government?

We know that the minister put some money on the table this week.

I'll conclude by saying that the committee will support you all the way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Who is your question for?