Official Languages Committee on June 10th, 2021

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

It has to become a priority.

[Linda Cardinal]

Yes, we will have to keep hammering home our message, but we need consistency and action. You say you don't want to get into the political aspect. That's fine, but then we need all the players to sit around the same table, say that this is a priority for them and agree to coordinate their efforts and work together to go beyond their particular interests and aim for a collective interest, which is the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mrs. Cardinal.

The Standing Committee on Official Languages is your forum. We all have the same objective. That's what I always say to all my colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Godin.

The floor now goes to Mr. Lefebvre for four minutes.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will share some of my time with my colleague Mr. Arseneault.

Mr. Godin wanted results, evidence. Personally, despite the difficulties I encountered, I was able to do all my studies in French in Ontario. I am therefore proof that it is possible. We have challenges to overcome, of course. There will be challenges for my children as well.

I would like to ask Mr. Giroux from Collège Boréal a few questions.

You talked about the success you've had with the annual report on colleges. My congratulations. It's a success story that we celebrate in Sudbury and elsewhere in Ontario.

Could you tell us about Collège Boréal's financial situation and the challenges you are facing? How are you managing?

[Daniel Giroux]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Lefebvre.

As president of Collège Boréal, I am often asked the same question: people ask me how I manage 38 sites in 26 communities and how it can be viable.

As Mrs. Cardinal mentioned earlier, the educational institutions are really part of the community. Collège Boréal doesn't just offer regular post‑secondary education programs. We also offer employability services as well as immigration programs, in both settlement and language training. We provide training for lifelong learning. Across Ontario, more than 5,000 people a year take training in French as a second language.

When there are eight or nine different programs and services in places like London or Windsor, we have a critical mass. That means there is an interest in the francophonie. We then work in partnership with the school boards. That's when we become profitable and sustainable. It's a lot of work.

However, it's not just post‑secondary education. Due to lack of funding and growth, as well as declining tuition fees, it would be impossible for us to survive if we relied solely on regular post‑secondary education programs.

As a result, many post‑secondary institutions, both colleges and universities, depend on international students to balance their budgets. And when there are crises, as has been the case recently, it's not only a challenge for the universities, but also for some of the larger colleges. Centennial College in downtown Toronto, for example, has 54% international students. In this sort of crisis, financial viability is being sorely tested.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

It's getting really difficult. I know that you are very diverse in Sudbury. You are doing a great job.

Mr. Hastir, thank you for your presentation and your leadership. It is excellent. We need more leaders like you.

You talked about actions that the federal government could take legally or legislatively. You talked about the Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act (CCAA). I have a private member's bill on that.

Could you tell me why you think these steps are important?

[François Hastir]

Actually, it's to make sure that we don't set a precedent in this case and that other universities or public institutions don't do the same thing.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

The provinces must also ensure that institutions are sustainable and well funded. I completely agree with you on that.

[François Hastir]

Let me add something. The next time there is a crisis of this kind, we must ensure that there is co‑operation before the building is bulldozed.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

I agree with you 100%.

I believe that there is not much time left for my colleague Mr. Arseneault.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

There are 30 seconds left.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, everyone.

Mrs. Cardinal, the provinces seem to be moving away from their responsibilities, in order to get more money from the federal government, and this is causing a lot of concern.

What are you hearing from the various francophone post‑secondary institutions across the country outside of Quebec about co‑operation and negotiations with the provinces?

[Linda Cardinal]

The problem is the great disparity between the provinces. The reality is different from one province to another. That's why we need to bring everyone to the same table and establish a consistent approach. At the moment, the priority, horizontally from east to west, including the north, is to support higher education in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Cardinal.

We'll go to Mr. Beaulieu for two minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me come back to the concept of institutional completeness. What I find surprising is that very few studies seem to have analyzed the proportion of funding granted to francophone institutions in relation to the demographic weight of francophones in the various provinces. I have read only one study to that effect, by Frédéric Lacroix and Patrick Sabourin.

Do you think it would be a good thing if each province had studies on institutional completeness?

[Linda Cardinal]

We must not forget that the concept of institutional completeness is a creation of the francophone minority outside Quebec, and we are very proud of it. We are the ones who popularized it.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It was during the battle for the Montfort Hospital.

[Linda Cardinal]

It was long before that, in the 1960s, with Mr. Breton. I have been proud to defend this concept for a long time. Thank you for using it in the Quebec context.

Yes, studies are needed. I know that the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne has a study under way on funding. The problem is the difficulty of accessing those figures. The funding is spread out across the provinces, and it takes a lot of hard work to try to figure out where the money is going. Is it true that money for post‑secondary education is being used to clean up roads, for example?

Ms. Joly's white paper suggests that the provinces need to be more accountable for the funding they receive. We must not allow the provinces to become unaccountable. In that sense, I am quite supportive of a dialogue between the provinces and the federal government to better understand where the money is going.

That said, there are disparities between provinces. The investment in higher education is lower in Ontario than in other provinces. It is all related to the vision of higher education that is unique to each province. Is higher education considered a market or a social service? In Quebec, it is a social service; in Ontario, it is a market.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mrs. Cardinal.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

We'll go back to Mr. Boulerice for the last two minutes.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to ask Mr. Giroux a question.

I, too, was shocked to hear that, since 2003, funding from the OLEP had been frozen by successive governments. That's a 45% decrease, if you consider the rate of inflation up to 2021.

What would you propose in this regard? What is the time line for catching up?

You may well say that it has to be done right away.

[Daniel Giroux]

That's an excellent question.

I believe it needs to be well planned. We need to see at least 30% more funding. Then we may have to catch up. We can't keep having this discussion about funding again every five years. In the base funding, we have a catch‑up period to be established. Then the increase has to keep up with inflation. Based on our calculations and planning, a 2% increase would allow us to continue to expand programs.

Earlier, we talked about developing instructional materials. We are a French-language college, and yet we're unable to purchase 50% of our textbooks in French. Half of our books are in English. OLEP is supporting us to help translate materials, but it's not easy. For example, for the electrician programs, the codes change every year. They have to be translated every year, and it's extremely expensive. The grant gives us the support to deliver services equivalent to those provided by English-language colleges.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I'm curious about one thing, Mr. Hastir. When colleges and universities close or cut programs, do the students you represent go to English-language universities or are they forced to move to Quebec or Ottawa, for example?

[François Hastir]

It depends on the program. Some enter the English stream. Some go to Quebec or other areas. In this case, we're witnessing an exodus and an increase in costs for students. This also has a societal cost, obviously.