Official Languages Committee on May 20th, 2024

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I really enjoyed hearing from my fellow member Mr. Drouin. His comments clearly illustrated the work he has done and continues to do to promote French in Canada. We need people like him to carry on the battle, which is practically never-ending. Through Bill C‑13 , we can go further in the battle and make more gains. That said, when the Official Languages Act is reviewed in 10 years, there will still be work to do.

Where I'm from, we say that people need to be soldiers to defend the cause. You have to have a backbone and be there for your people. Mr. Drouin has just clearly explained his journey up to now. Being very young, he still has a lot to offer. I am counting on him to continue the work that will have to be done.

What I want to say this evening is that I am very disappointed in the parties that are playing cheap politics.

The show's over now. You stressed the importance of respecting witnesses, but this is an attack on a person's reputation. That is where we stand today.

I am reaching out to my opposition colleagues. Some of them have been on this committee since 2015. I believe that is the case for Mr. Généreux. Some of them may have been on it even before I arrived. I am reaching out to them. It's time to move on to committee business. I understand that their respective leaders and parties are pressuring them. I get that. All parties do it. However, it takes people with principles, people with a backbone, people who take the space they need to advance French language and culture. What I'm asking them to do is take a stand within their party. It's not easy, but I encourage them to do so. They know as well as I do that this game has run its course.

My colleague from the Bloc Québécois, for whom I have a great deal of respect, mentioned the fact that the leader of the official opposition had been expelled from the House of Commons. This is our democratic institution, where the Speaker is responsible for ensuring democracy. However, the reason the leader of the official opposition was expelled from the House was that he did not apologize. He hasn't apologized, while my colleague Mr. Drouin has apologized six times so far. We need a soldier like him to support francophone communities and stop the decline of French.

We're all working toward the cause. It's time to stand up to your leaders and make them understand that you've made your point and it is now time to call off the hunt. Mr. Drouin has apologized. He is a soldier and he will continue to support the cause. That's where I stand. It's no longer about a motion or anything of the sort. Tell the truth: Your party does not want you to stop fighting. It wants you to continue the hunt, this attack on a soldier's reputation. I'm sorry, but it's time you looked in the mirror. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. It's everyone's responsibility.

I understand that it is not easy, that it can hurt and that it takes guts. That said, you were elected because you have principles. I want to appeal to your emotions. I know they're in there somewhere. I know that your leader told you to set aside your emotions and forget your dedication to the French language. He told you that it didn't matter and that you had to attack a soldier's reputation and hunt him down, even though he apologized.

However, as was mentioned earlier, when a Conservative member disrespected a minister, she apologized and everything was instantly fine. It was all over. There was no attack on her reputation, and there was no battle royal.

That's where I stand. Stop playing political games, and let's get to work. We have only a year and a half left to complete our work, including an extremely important study on the funding of post-secondary institutions, a topic that was proposed by my colleague Mr. Beaulieu. My colleague Ms. Ashton wants to talk about early childhood services, which is a crucial component of education, as education is a vital component of society.

As you know, I and a number of other people around the table want to talk about funding for school boards. In the 1990s, for the first time in Canada's history, we got the right to education in French, separate from the anglophone school boards. From that point on, we had the right to determine our own destiny.

You may be wondering why I'm talking about this. I'm actually talking about you. Stop thinking that you have to follow your party line and your leader. This is not a partisan issue. Enough with the political gamesmanship. I'm asking you to do what's right for French. You are all here to continue the battle, because, as I explained, it is always a battle. Bill C‑13 is a great tool box that will help us enormously, but we can never give up the fight.

It's time to find the strength to light your own way. Remember that you are soldiers who should support the other soldiers who are defending the cause of French in Canada. Tell your party that the war on the reputation of a soldier who has been defending this cause since he was very young, like his family, is over. How many times does a person have to apologize?

I want us to stop playing political games. I know that your leader has asked you to put forward a motion to continue to criticize a soldier and attack his reputation. I am asking all members who have influence within their party to use it. I had that experience myself when I voted against my party on Bill C‑13 on a number of occasions. I know it's not easy. Did I score any points? Probably not. Did I lose any? I don't think I did, because I stood by my principles. When a journalist asked me how I felt after voting against my party, I told him that I did not vote against my party, but rather, that I voted according to my principles.

I would like to know which soldiers on the other side are acting according to their principles. Light your own way and make decisions to support the soldiers who are defending the cause of French-speaking communities in Canada. That's all I'm asking. Rein in your motions, get out your tools and let's get to work together.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

I now give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu, to be followed by Ms. Ashton.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

If I understand correctly, I now have the floor. You said earlier that you weren't going to give it to me, Mr. Chair, but if you're giving it to me, great, I'll take it.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

No, I didn't say that earlier, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That was my understanding.

I simply want to say that, as soon as our second-last meeting began, people wanted to sweep this matter under the rug. Mr. Drouin has made half-hearted apologies. Whether or not he is a defender of French in Ontario is ultimately not the main issue here.

After that, there was a filibuster for an entire meeting. We are forced to use Standing Order 106(4) to get the committee back on topic. Why is there so much filibustering? It's to prevent the committee from going to a vote. However, we are allowed to be of the opinion that Mr. Drouin has disqualified himself from his mandate to help promote the French language internationally and to showcase the vitality of French in Quebec, the heartland of the French language in the Americas.

He is not an extremist like Mr. Housefather or other members who are more… I said “extremist”, but I will withdraw the word. The fact remains that some members have said certain things. For example, Mr. Rodriguez said that, in wanting to apply Bill 101 to federally regulated businesses, the Bloc Québécois was dividing people based on their skin colour. I didn't hear anyone censure him for that. I am anti-racist. When witnesses suggested that we were racist, I was the only one to speak up. No one else supported Quebec on that.

We have to consider not only what happened during the meeting itself, but also what happened afterwards. At the beginning, the member said that he wouldn't tolerate being taken for a fool and being given an argument that did not hold water. I am sorry, but it is a valid argument. The member may not agree, but when he says that people are taking him for a fool, he is still accusing people of advancing arguments that do not hold water. In my opinion, there's a difference between saying that someone is incompetent, saying that someone is taking us for fools and saying that a witness is “full of shit”.

I think the member misrepresented what the witnesses said. I am happy that he has provided some clarifications, but in my opinion, it's too little, too late.

I also don't think it's appropriate to bring up the dead ducks matter again and all those things that were said 40 years ago. If we looked at all the things that have been said over the past 40 years, we could dig up a lot.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, there needs to be a little decorum around the table. I see that the members opposite are talking while my colleague has the floor. I think we need to have a modicum of respect. We haven't said a word for a while now.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Frankly, Mr. Godin, if the microphones had been on, I would have intervened.

I often see you turn around to talk to members of your team or not listen to a member on the other side who has the floor. These things happen frequently in committee. Frankly, you're the first to consult your assistants while someone is speaking. It goes both ways: You, as well as every other member of the committee, have the right to do so.

If other microphones had been open at the same time, I would have intervened. You don't raise a point of order because someone doesn't look the person who has the floor in the eye.

Mr. Beaulieu, you may continue.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In short, I don't consider this to be reputational damage.

We feel that Mr. Drouin went too far. I have no doubt that he is an advocate for Franco-Ontarians. But he can't say that we don't defend the francophonie. He was there, along with Mr. Serré and all the other Liberal members, when we had the clause-by-clause study of Bill C‑13. They witnessed how we defended, even more than any other party, all the positions of the francophone and Acadian communities. To say that we don't defend the French language is misinformation.

Even before becoming an MP, I supported the Montfort Hospital. My colleagues and I participated in rallies for the Université de l'Ontario français.

We're not trying to tell francophones outside Quebec what to do. I've always supported their positions. Even if sometimes I think it doesn't go far enough, that's none of my business.

What Mr. Drouin has done, in my opinion, is really show contempt—

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

On a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Wait a moment, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Serré, you have the floor.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to ask Mr. Beaulieu if he can show me newspaper articles proving that he supported francophones outside Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

This is a point of argument; it's not a point of order.

Mr. Beaulieu, keep to the subject of your motion as much as possible.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In any case, I could demonstrate this with the help of this committee's minutes.

I would like to say that I consider the motion to be in order. It would be out of order if it proclaimed the MP's resignation. On the other hand, we have the right to believe that he must resign, if a vote held here goes in that direction. Our committee has the right to vote and to have an opinion. In the aftermath, the committee will report and it will be up to the higher authorities to decide.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

We will end with Ms. Ashton—

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

On a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Wait a moment, Ms. Ashton.

You have the floor, Mr. Serré.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, earlier I heard Mr. Beaulieu refer to another MP as an extremist. He withdrew his remarks, but did not apologize.

Can we ask Mr. Beaulieu to apologize for making this comment?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

As quickly as I can, I'll reiterate what I've already said. Neither the committee nor the chair can impose sanctions or disciplinary measures. All I can do is ask a member to withdraw his or her words or comments made in the heat of the moment. Mr. Beaulieu did so immediately of his own accord, as did Mr. Drouin. As chair, I can't demand anything of a committee member.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

But—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Wait a moment, Mr. Beaulieu. Ms. Ashton has the floor for the moment.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much.

First of all, I must say that I am disappointed that we have to hold a second meeting during a constituency week, especially since today is a holiday when we should be with our families. It's a very busy week for many of us. Here in western Canada, we've had some historic forest fires, including in my riding. That had to be dealt with. Unfortunately, we have to deal again with the situation that occurred in our committee.

That said, I think it's important that we meet and take a stand, as a committee, to say that we don't accept the behaviour in question by one of our committee members, and that such behaviour isn't worthy of a member of the Standing Committee on Official Languages or a president of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie. I think it's important that we take this position. It doesn't just affect one member of the committee; it affects the reputation of the entire committee.

This week, I received comments from several people. I'm going to share with you a comment I heard from someone who is well respected in the francophone community outside Quebec, and whose name I'll keep anonymous. This is someone who has already testified before our committee. In a conversation on a completely different subject, this person raised the fact that they were very concerned about the behaviour of the member of our committee we are talking about today. This francophone person, who is strong and passionate about issues relating to the francophonie, raised the question: Should we expect other witnesses to experience such behaviour when they come to testify before our committee?

This person has a point of view that needs to be heard again at our committee. We need to hear the views and experiences of people like them. However, how many fear the same thing? We invite people to come and share their views, experiences and opinions with us, and we want to treat them with respect. Unfortunately, some people are already wondering if they too will be the subject of such behaviour if one of us disagrees with them.

That's why I think it's essential that, as a committee, we take a stand to say that this kind of behaviour is not worthy of a member of this committee or of a president of a parliamentary assembly that represents us internationally.

I also want to add that we in the NDP do not question Mr. Drouin's or any other member of this committee's commitment to the defence of the French language. It's unfortunate that this conversation has become so intense and that we see such a defence around this table, because I don't think that's what we're talking about. We're talking about behaviour that showed a lack of respect not only for the witnesses present, but also for this committee and for future witnesses.

Finally, as I've mentioned to other members of the committee, we've been in politics for a while. For my part, I've had the privilege of being a member of Parliament for almost 16 years. You know that, like many of you, I'm very passionate about many issues. On several occasions, I've expressed my disagreement with other members of a committee, whether it be this one or another. I've even disagreed with several witnesses who have come before us, but never like what we've seen recently.

You say the MP has apologized, but you want to continue without taking any further action. For example, the MP could take a break and distance himself from the committee and the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie in order to reflect on what he has done and the consequences of his action on the committee's reputation. However, this is not the case and, in my opinion, demonstrates a troubling arrogance.

Unfortunately, this isn't the first time we've seen arrogance from politicians. That said, I don't think it's representative of the spirit of our committee, a committee that worked hard on the modernization of the Official Languages Act, a committee that shows its respect for all official language minority communities, whether they're francophone or anglophone.

This is our party's position on this issue. The committee's reputation is at stake. We have to think about the message we're sending to future witnesses as well as to the Canadians and Quebeckers who follow our work. It's about the reputation of this committee.

For our part, in the NDP, we hope that the committee will be able to express an opinion on this issue. We hope to be able to continue to work with an emphasis on respect despite disagreements. This spirit of respect must be an integral part of our work as a committee, now and in the future.

It is for this reason that we support the motion that has been proposed. We hope that the committee can come to a decision on this matter as soon as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

I have now heard from everyone who wanted to speak on the motion.

I'll read the motion again. Mr. Beaulieu, you'll let me know if I'm reading it correctly, as you have—

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I had raised my hand, but did I do so too late?