Official Languages Committee on March 23rd, 2022

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you.

You didn't discuss the monetary penalties included in the bill.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

No.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Air Canada generates annual revenue of $5.8 billion. If the Commissioner levies a maximum penalty of $25,000—penalties may amount to as little as $5,000 or $1,000—do you really think a company such as Air Canada would be rattled by a fine of $10,000 or even $25,000?

It might decide to pay the fine and not comply with the act.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Don't forget that administrative monetary penalties are an additional tool. I don't think they're the biggest deterrent.

We've given the commissioner five additional powers. First, there's informal mediation. Second, the commissioner may make his decisions public, something he could not previously do. Third, he may impose administrative monetary penalties, which, as you mentioned, range to a maximum of $25,000. However, I believe the two remaining powers are more consequential: they are compliance agreements and the authority to make orders.

I think people often view monetary penalties as something tangible because they can understand them. However, the authority to make orders will have a more powerful effect on companies such as Air Canada.

That being said, the commissioner asked us to impose penalties, and we did. The commissioner will now have the toolbox he needs to do his job, and his job is to protect our official languages.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

You mentioned the power to make orders that's being granted to the commissioner.

Here's a specific example. Air Canada representatives who testified before the committee on Monday told us that 130,000 training hours had been given to 10,000 employees over 7 years. If you do the calculation, that means a few minutes of training per employee per year.

Could the commissioner use his authority to make orders to require Air Canada to increase training from a few minutes to 10 hours a year?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

The power to make orders will enable the commissioner to impose measures. I'm not aware of all the possible situations, but I must say monetary penalties won't necessarily change anything at Air Canada.

The authority to make orders is a powerful tool. We are very pleased with the tools we've provided the commissioner. Incidentally, I spoke to him on the phone after the bill was tabled in the House of Commons, that same day. He was very pleased with the work we had done and the tools we were providing him because they would now help him carry out his mandate.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

I have a final question on a technical point.

Minister, $121.3 million was earmarked in the 2021 budget for post-secondary educational institutions. I've learned from various sources that approximately $40 million has not yet been issued to those institutions for the first part of the 2021‑2022 fiscal year.

Would you please check to see whether that money will be paid soon or confirm for me that it will be?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Perhaps no official announcements were made, but the post-secondary educational institutions got a call from the minister informing them that announcements were coming soon.

The announcements have not yet been made, but many universities have received funding. You'll be receiving the official information sooner rather than later.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you on behalf of the institutions, Minister, but, between you and me, March 31 is coming soon. The institutions must need that money in their budgets for the current year because, in some instances, they're using their lines of credit to meet their needs.

So you will confirm for me that they have all received the funds before March 31?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I can confirm that, when I phoned them, they were very pleased with the information they got from the minister.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Minister, we're always pleased when it comes to money.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister and Mr. Gourde.

Ms. Kayabaga, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I'd like to thank our minister for being with us today and for presenting Bill C‑13 to us. I think it's a good thing for francophones across Canada.

Minister, earlier the Bloc Québécois asked a question about the principle of territoriality. I'd like to go back to that question. Some witnesses suggested by the Bloc Québécois told us in previous meetings that the best way to protect the French language was to adopt an approach based on the principle of territoriality.

As a francophone from outside Quebec, I feel that approach is very concerning, and I believe you'll share that opinion, knowing that you are Acadian.

Why must the government use its legislative authority to protect and promote French across Canada?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you very much for that very important question.

As you know, being a proud Acadian who lives in an official language minority community, I experience that reality on a daily basis, as I said earlier.

As the federal government, we must discharge our responsibility to protect and promote our beautiful languages in Canada. That's why we'll be moving ahead with Bill C‑13, which will be much more robust than the present legislation. We definitely want to make our contribution toward protecting our beautiful languages. That's something we must do both in and outside Quebec.

I'm very pleased with the work we've managed to do. I hope the bill sails through the committee stage and the House of Commons and receives royal assent because we'll still have a lot of work to do to develop its regulatory framework.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

One of the interesting aspects of Bill C‑13 is the way it reinforces positive measures by encouraging the government to take into consideration the impact its decisions have on official language minority communities. That impact study is similar to the one the government conducts as part of its gender-based analysis.

Is that an accurate comparison?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you very much for that question.

Once again, we drafted the provisions in part VII of the proposed act to ensure that all government decisions are ultimately justified based on that study. We want to see what impacts our decisions have on official language minority communities. Since we know we haven't achieved substantive equality between the official languages, sometimes we have to take additional measures. It's important for us to ensure this impact study is always done.

I hope one day I won't be the only Minister of Official Languages to conduct impact studies. I genuinely hope all departments will automatically do them with respect to the official language minority communities. That's really my dream.

I'm also going to champion this cause, but we have to ensure that our act is very clear so impact studies are conducted in all cases.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I like that answer, which leads me to my last question.

We know that French is in decline in Canada. We must spare no effort to ensure that francophones and the French language are protected across Canada.

From what other witnesses who have appeared before our committee have told us, 60% of francophones live in Africa. If we want to expand our francophone community here in Canada, both in and outside Quebec, we really must recruit francophones where they live. Unfortunately, we've also learned that they would encounter many obstacles, such as the French test. The level of difficulty of that test is too high for francophones who are born francophones and who have studied and worked in French.

What could our department do, together with other departments, to solve those problems so we can continue meeting our targets for francophones in Canada, particularly in minority settings such as here at home in London?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Stakeholders have told us they want to ensure that Bill C‑13 addresses francophone immigration. I'm very pleased to have worked closely with Minister Fraser, who I believe will be meeting with you next week to discuss francophone immigration. We want to ensure that our bill includes an ambitious immigration strategy with objectives, targets indicators…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I apologize for interrupting, Minister, but time is up.

Mr. Beaulieu, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

There's a very broad consensus in Quebec. All cities and unions, former premiers and all parties in the Quebec National Assembly want Bill 101 to apply to federally regulated businesses. However, you'll be passing new legislation that will interfere with that and you'll be letting businesses choose between the two acts.

Why aren't you listening to Quebec's demands?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

First, Mr. Beaulieu, I want to be clear. Our new act largely draws on Quebec's Bill 101. We want to be sure that our federal act is also broad in scope. We also want to ensure…

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Pardon me, but that's not all the same thing. Bill 101 is designed to make French the common language in the workplace, whereas the Official Languages Act enables people to work in French. The two acts aren't at all the same.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Federally regulated businesses will have the option of choosing Bill 101, and I would note that 40% of federally regulated businesses do so. However, they'll have the option of choosing the federal regime, but our federal regime isn't more permissive. We want to make sure Quebeckers have a choice…