Official Languages Committee on March 23rd, 2022

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Boyer, Ms. Mondou and Ms. Boily, thank you for remaining with us to present your testimony in the second hour of this meeting.

I would like you to explain the following to me. Based on my reading of the current Official Languages Act, there is some confusion between the powers and responsibilities of each of the departments. Could you describe for me the responsibilities of the Department of Canadian Heritage with respect to the application of the act? How far can your department go and where does the role of the Treasury Board begin?

[Isabelle Mondou, Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To begin with, the Treasury Board, which is the central agency, will have its powers enhanced by the act. How? As the minister mentioned, some powers will no longer be discretionary. From the moment the Treasury Board adopts policies and regulations and has verified the organizations' compliance, many of its powers will henceforth require it to take action, whereas before, it could choose whether or not to act. The directive is no longer that it "may", but rather "must" act. The Treasury Board's role has therefore been strengthened. It will fully perform its role with the aid of new resources. That, after all, is the role of a central agency.

Secondly, many departments, including the Department of Canadian Heritage, have important roles to play with respect to official languages. I think someone asked a question about that earlier. The department provides funds to postsecondary institutions and others through contribution programs. The department has the proper authorities. Granting project contributions constitutes 90% of its mandate. It will therefore continue to perform this role in close cooperation with the communities, because it needs to maintain a dialogue with them to know what their needs are. It is going to continue to do that. It will still be the intermediary with the communities to ensure that the programs offered to them meet their needs.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Deputy Minister Mondou, having read the bill, I understand that the Treasury Board can transfer its responsibilities to these institutions. Is that or is that not the case?

[Isabelle Mondou]

I don't think that the Treasury Board can do that. You would have to specify which clause in the bill you mean for me to be able to give you an answer. The Treasury Board will be plenipotentiary and will be exercising its powers. It is now required exercise these powers, whereas before, it could choose whether or not to do so. It will have to adopt regulations, provide guidelines, prepare updates and monitor everything, which is an important power for the communities.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

As for the leading role played by the Department of Canadian Heritage, does it involve simply administering transfers of funds to help institutions and organizations?

[Isabelle Mondou]

Its role also includes working closely with the communities. The minister talked about part VII of the act. It's important to be aware of what the communities want to say to us. Our decisions have a major impact on the communities. The Department of Canadian Heritage will therefore continue to have this direct link with the communities to ensure that they are well informed about what they are saying so that they can pass on the information to all the other responsible departments, such as Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

I have another question. The minister indicated that the $123 million would be transferred within the next eight days, because the budget year-end is March 31. Why was there such a long wait? Why this stress on the organizations?

The organizations were aware of the amount, because it was announced in the 2021 budget. Now we learn that the transfer will happen between now and March 31. In any event, we assume that the institutions were informed and that they will receive the funds. Are the funds transferable and applicable to next year, or must they be spent by March 31?

[Isabelle Mondou]

I'll answer the first part of your question and then ask my colleague to answer the second, because she is really the programs specialist.

When a budget is tabled, the Treasury Board is told how the money is to be spent. That's the first phase. Then, a program needs to be launched and people are asked to submit an application for it, which takes them a few weeks. After that, the applications need to be analyzed. Once that is done and they are accepted, the funds can be transferred.

Ms. Boily can now provide you with further details about the program.

[Sarah Boily, Director General, Official Languages, Department of Canadian Heritage]

I have only one thing to add to my colleague' s response.

At the moment, we are talking about postsecondary education, a jurisdiction that is exclusively provincial. To spend this money, we therefore need to make sure that we work closely with the provinces. Postsecondary educational institutions that have needs and want to submit an application, have to work through the provinces, meaning that…

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You'll have to stop there, Ms. Boily, because I have only a minute left.

[Sarah Boily]

... a little more time is required.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I understand, but why end up like that only eight days away from the end of the fiscal year?

I think everything was a little bit sloppy and that someone, somewhere, dragged their feet. It's true, on the one hand, that education is an area of provincial jurisdiction, but on the other hand, why be in that position eight days from the end of the fiscal year?

Something in the process is not working. That's what I'm wondering about.

I have another question. I'd like to return to the particulars about the airline companies, because I believe that's an important matter.

My understanding is that Air Canada and the other three air carriers will have to comply with the Official Languages Act. However, the minister said that all the other transportation firms that provide services to travellers will have to comply with the new act on the use of French in federally-regulated private companies because federally-regulated private companies were removed from the Official Languages Act.

[Isabelle Mondou]

Yes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

That's where the difference lies. Not only that, but there will be a two-year waiting period before the act becomes applicable in Quebec and outside Quebec. That's my understanding of it.

Can you confirm all of that?

[Isabelle Mondou]

Yes.

You're right that some existing obligations in the act will be strengthened by means of new powers and tools that the minister mentioned. That's the first thing.

The second thing is that when a new act that places obligations on federally-regulated companies comes into force, it is accompanied by a set of standards, in the form of regulations.

Why the two-year gap? Because it's essential to consult the companies to ensure they are ready. What these companies and communities have told us is that if obligations were imposed without any assistance for them, they would find themselves immediately in violation of the act, which is of no use to anyone.

The two-year period will enable us to work with these companies to help them prepare.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Will the commissioner be able to fine these companies $25,000?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Godin. Six minutes can go by really quickly.

It's Mr. Francis Drouin's turn to speak now.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here. When we sent out the invitations, we wanted to have a general discussion, but then Bill C‑13 was introduced, and s we happen to be here, we can get down to the meat of the subject.

The wording of the Official Languages Act was changed from "positive measures" to "the positive measures" because it was thought that it was important to add the word " the" for clarity, particularly in court.

What cultural shift will there be in your department and other federal departments as a result of this change in wording?

[Isabelle Mondou]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

What's important in the changes being made to the act is that we want to introduce positive measures that really have an impact on the community. We don't want a string of minor measures that might turn out to be useful. Adding the word "the" also stems from the obligation to consult the communities. That's the first thing.

Secondly, it's important to make sure that the measures taken have a positive impact and remedy any negative aspects that our analyses may have identified in our policy.

Not only are positive measures needed to improve the situation, but we must also ensure that our policy does not have a negative impact on the community. That might turn out to mean a new set of positive measures to fully counter these negative impacts.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Under normal circumstances, for example, the Department of Canadian Heritage could fund the St‑Albert Curd Festival in my riding. That could be put forward as a positive measure to support franco-Ontarian culture where I live.

How is your department going to go about analyzing all of the positive measures taken by other entities, like FedDev Ontario, which sometimes funds francophone companies in our region in support of the minority?

How are you going to analyze all the positive measures? Will we have to go and obtain information from the other departments?

[Isabelle Mondou]

It's not really the Department of Canadian Heritage that will be monitoring all the positive measures, because this obligation applies to all the departments.

If Natural Resources Canada takes a positive measure, for example, it will have to do an analysis, with due regard, of course, to other government programs to ensure that the measure is genuinely beneficial to the community.

But the Department of Canadian Heritage will continue to assist the other departments. The expertise we have acquired and the tools we have developed can help them with this analysis. But ultimately, as the minister mentioned, every time they submit a memorandum to cabinet or take a measure, they will need to carry out this analysis and make sure that they have taken the appropriate steps. That's how the bill strengthens the process.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We know now that the Treasury Board will be playing an enhanced role in strengthening the application of the act. Will it be the usual back-and-forth procedures that often occur between it and the departments for all kinds of projects?

For example, when it asked them how they will implement the positive measures presented in their programs?

[Isabelle Mondou]

The Treasury Board will have increased monitoring powers. It will therefore be able to adopt policies and guidelines to set some guideposts.

The minister mentioned a regulation in part VII. That's step one. The departments will be given an explanation about how to do the analysis and we will strengthen the process by basing it on the act. Then, the Treasury Board will also be able to check whether the guidelines have been followed.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay.

If the Treasury Board has a monitoring role, it will be able to prevent the introduction of a program or policy if, for example, it deems that the directive with respect to subsection 41(5) has not been complied with.

[Isabelle Mondou]

We have been having ongoing discussions with the Treasury Board, even now, to ensure that the measures are complied with and that the analysis is carried out. For example, if the analysis were to show that something was missing, the Treasury Board would raise it by saying that the policy and the act are not being complied with. The Treasury Board would of course react that way if the directives had not been applied because there were no consultations or no positive measures, or if certain negative impacts had not been not corrected.