Official Languages Committee on March 23rd, 2022

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Beaulieu. I'm always glad to see you as well.

We state very clearly that French is in decline in Quebec and Canada. We haven't downplayed that fact in our bill's provisions. We acknowledge that we must do more to protect and promote French in Quebec and Canada. When you look at our reform document, Bill C‑32 and Bill C‑13, the common denominator is that we want substantive equality. We have to take further measures to ensure we make a difference for the greater francophone community. That's very clear in our bill.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Even the UN Human Rights Committee doesn't recognize Quebec anglophones as a minority because they're part of the English Canadian majority. You nevertheless view Quebec anglophones as the minority.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

On the French language issue, we recognize that French is in decline in Quebec and Canada. We're still committed to introducing measures for substantive equality of the two official languages.

As an Acadian in New Brunswick, I live in an official language minority community. That's my everyday life, Mr. Beaulieu. So modernizing the act is a personal issue for me; it isn't a political matter. I want to change things in Quebec and Canada. I want to ensure that we promote and protect our beautiful language.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

There have to be measures, not just fine-sounding words. Quebec's language planning model is based on the principle of territoriality. Its aim is to make French the only common and official language in its territory. That's essential if we want to francize enough newcomers to maintain our demographic weight. However, that's not at all what we see in your bill; you still want to impose institutional bilingualism on Quebec.

In overall terms, we know that the only effective language planning models for protecting official language minorities are territoriality-based models. What the Official Languages Act has proven is that other models don't work. The assimilation rate of francophones outside Quebec is constantly rising, and the official bilingualism that has been imposed on Quebec has caused French to decline there as well.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

The specificity of the provinces and territories is definitely included in our bill. We acknowledge Quebec's specificity and that of New Brunswick. We've been very clear on that point, Mr. Beaulieu.

Once again, as a federal minister, I want to ensure that the government shoulders its responsibilities, that we do our job, because we can see that French is in decline in Canada. We all need to help attack this problem, which is of enormous concern to me.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Let's talk about concrete measures. To date, for example, 100% of the positive measures for Quebec have supported the anglophone side. They're mainly designed to increase the offer of English-language services. They even support organizations that attempt to anglicize newcomers to Quebec.

Are we going to continue devoting 100% of the positive measures taken in Quebec under the official languages support programs to English, including the development of official language communities program, the enhancement of official languages program and the official languages health program?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Once again, as Minister of Official Languages, I will ensure our government makes every effort to protect and promote our language.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You're not answering my question.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

That's precisely what we're doing by putting our measures in place, Mr. Beaulieu.

As I said, I personally recognize the situation of French in this country. I don't deny it at all. The government must do more.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

What triggers our scepticism is that, until very recently, the federal government and the Liberal Party denied that French was in decline, even though for a very long time all the indicators had clearly suggested the contrary .

A change occurred, but no measures followed. Recognizing the decline of French without taking measures to provide any real support for the language is just an attempt to fool Quebeckers.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Through our action plan, our reform document and the investments we're making in French second language learning, we want to be sure we improve all that. The federal government is making specific investments to improve our situation. If we invest today, more people will be able to communicate in French in future.

Once again, that's very important for us. We don't want assimilation. On the contrary, we want to prevent it. We want to ensure that people can speak their beautiful French language.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In that case, why not leave Quebec in sole control of its language planning?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You're speaking time is up, Mr. Beaulieu.

Thank you, Ms. Petitpas Taylor.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Mr. Beaulieu, get back to me on that and I'll answer your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I tried to interrupt you as politely as possible, but I have to play my role.

We will now go to Niki Ashton, who joins us directly from Manitoba.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair

Good afternoon, Minister.

I'll begin with a question on the modernization of the Official Languages Act that reflects the concerns of stakeholders and francophone communities, particularly those outside Quebec.

Why aren't the language clauses in the federal-provincial agreements included in the bill?

We know that, without those clauses, language minorities will be systematically forgotten, as is clear from the shortage of spaces in francophone child care facilities here at home and elsewhere in Canada.

Why aren't the language clauses included in this bill?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you very much for your question, Ms. Ashton.

I also recently read your tweet in which you said you were looking for day care spaces for your children. I understand you because people here at home are in the same situation.

I have to go back in time to answer your question on language clauses in bilateral agreements.

After Bill C‑32 was introduced, stakeholders said they wanted the definition of positive measures in part VII of the Official Languages Act to have more teeth. When Bill C‑13 was drafted, we paid special attention to the terms used to define positive measures. That was necessary because part VII is closely related to the question you just asked.

We did that to ensure that, when the bill receives royal assent, all the decisions the government makes regarding bilateral agreements or anything else are subsequently analyzed to assess their impact on official language minority communities.

As I said, we want substantive equality, and we need to ensure that the measures we introduce help to achieve it. Consequently, we want to make sure all the analyses are done. I often compare this to gender-based analysis.

When we formed the government in 2015, we didn't discuss this at length, but now all decisions presented to cabinet are analyzed with respect to their gender impact. The Minister for Women and Gender Equality isn't the only one considering this matter; now all ministers do so, and we debate it.

So as regards the definition of positive measures and the work we've done on that, stakeholders are very pleased to see that we genuinely want to resolve the issue.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I appreciate your feedback, but positive measures are clearly not enough. The federal-provincial agreements must contain language clauses to ensure that funding and services are also provided in French.

I've told my personal story, and I think we all agree this is a missed opportunity. I obviously have a voice and can tell that story, but many people stay on waiting lists for child care facilities that provide their services in French. They won't have access to them, partly because we've missed the opportunity to ensure language clauses are included. Let's hope that stakeholders' concerns and those of francophone communities can be heard.

Moving on to another question, why did you decide to restrict the commissioner's new powers solely to crown corporations that operate in the transportation sector and provide services and communicate with travellers? Why not extend them to all businesses concerned by part VII of the act?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you for that important question.

As I said at the outset, I spoke with many stakeholders, including the Commissioner of Official Languages. The decision to impose monetary penalties was made at the request of the commissioner himself. As we all know, many companies such as Air Canada, which I'll use as an example, are subject to numerous complaints, as the commissioner told us. The commissioner wanted another tool at his disposal: the power to impose monetary penalties. He expressly asked that we choose a sector where companies have contact with the travelling public.

I worked with the Minister of Transport, Mr. Alghabra, in the course of our deliberations. We looked at which companies were already affected by the issue and already subject to the Official Languages Act. We examined specific companies such as Air Canada, VIA Rail and Marine Atlantic, as well as the airport authorities, because they were viewed as having contact with travellers.

However, I want to make it clear that the tools we gave the Commissioner of Official Languages include more than monetary penalties. There's the whole matter of informal mediation…

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Minister. I'll move on to another question.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You barely have five seconds left, Ms. Ashton. Your question will have to wait until your next turn.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

All right.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'm sorry. Six minutes goes by quickly.

We now move on to the second round. The first speaker will be Jacques Gourde.

Mr. Gourde, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being with us today. It will be a real pleasure to work with you.

I believe you're very sensitive to the idea of modernizing the Official Languages Act, and since the issue falls within your purview and concerns you personally, it may be that much easier for the committee as a whole to improve the bill when it comes back to us.

You said you had met with stakeholders, companies. Was Air Canada one of the businesses that you or the department met in order to develop the bill?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I met one stakeholder, whose name escapes me. I met him during my second week as Minister of Official Languages in connection with Mr. Rousseau's gaffe, as his comments had been a source of frustration for me.

We discussed the subject, but not the bill.