Official Languages Committee on Oct. 10th, 2024

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to change the subject, but I'm still speaking to you, Mrs. Ouellette.

You said that approximately 5,900 or 5,450 students didn't have access to French-language day care services. In other words, we're talking about 49% of rights holders.

Do you have any statistics on those children? For example, how many of them wind up in a francophone primary school? How many of them ultimately continue their education in English if they attended an anglophone early childhood facility?

[Chantal Ouellette]

We don't have any specific data on that yet, but the figure you're looking for is 5,453 children. That's the number of children who were eligible for instruction in French in 2021. Once children begin their education in English, we know they will continue in English, hence the difference of approximately 11,000 students that we don't have in the francophone system.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I have a brief final question because I don't have a lot of time left.

Mr. Levesque, would you say that the declining graduation rate of teachers that you've observed presents an existential threat to your system?

[Robert Levesque]

Yes.

We talk a lot about the fact that we need to invest in infrastructure, and that's absolutely true.

However, what has the greatest impact on student learning? It's skilled academic personnel. It's not concrete walls; it's really the personnel. Competent and qualified staff are the soul of a school, and my observation is that the situation is very troubling in that respect.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Levesque and Mr. Lightbound.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't remember whether it was Mr. Bernard or Mr. Samson who mentioned the right of remedy and the fact that there were no schools at all for some 30 years.

Would you please tell us more about that?

To what extent have successive provincial governments acknowledged the right of remedy?

[Ghislain Bernard]

To understand the right of remedy, you have to consider the chain of events.

The provincial government shut down francophone schools in 1970. There were approximately 60 French-language schools in Prince Edward Island. All but one were closed. There was a community—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That was in 1970.

[Ghislain Bernard]

Yes, that was in 1970.

In 2000, the Arsenault-Cameron v. Prince Edward Island ruling restored the right to French schools to Prince Edward Island francophones. In our view, a rights holder can be a rights holder by inheritance. He doesn't speak French because he was unable to attend a French school.

Our communities, formerly francophone, began to speak English to support their children who went to English schools. For a whole generation, there was much less French.

Our mission is somewhat to refrancize those regions. We have francization officers in our schools. We don't have enough of them, but we do have them. Our teachers have two roles: first, they must teach the curriculum and second, they must francize young people. We would like to start that process at the preschool level as well.

Right now, we don't have a francization officer at the preschool level, but we see that as a need.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

There was no funding for French schools from 1970 to 2000; is that correct?

[Ghislain Bernard]

From 1970 to 2000, only one French-language school in Prince Edward Island was funded: École Évangéline.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Only one school. All the others….

Before that, how many francophone schools were there?

[Ghislain Bernard]

There were 60.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay. So there was a real desire to assimilate francophones.

[Ghislain Bernard]

It's an exercise called “consolidation.”

We went to schools that were often very small, some with only one room, as in the past. Larger schools were consolidated with gymnasiums and cafeterias. During that process, we did not want there to be two schools in the communities, that is, a French school and an English school. That was the saddest thing done to francophones in Prince Edward Island.

In 2000—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In a more distant past, laws prohibited French schools and the teaching of French.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu and Mr. Bernard.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

I've been generous in giving everybody a little more time. You've all had 10 to 15 seconds more.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With regard to the labour shortage, let's talk a little about training needs for early childhood educators and for post-secondary education.

Mr. Levesque, you presented some really shocking and disturbing statistics about the number of graduates coming out of our institutions. We know, for example, that the burnout rate among teachers is very high. The chair of the committee mentioned that as well. We see that there's a lack of support in the classrooms and schools.

I know that those who teach in French in minority communities are under additional pressure, not only to educate our young people, but also to create a universe, a francophone community based on what they do in the classroom and in their school. They are being asked to do a lot more.

I want to raise the issue of post-secondary support for education. Many francophone universities and colleges have made it clear that the promised funding of $80 million per year hasn't materialized under the governing Liberals, and that this is a problem.

Do you support francophone colleges and universities when they say that stable, long-term funding of $80 million per year would be essential to address the education and preschool labour shortage?

The witnesses from New Brunswick might begin.

Mr. Levesque, do you have any comments on that?

[Robert Levesque]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

In fact, if there is a shortage, it's because there is a recruitment problem. It's no secret that there are fewer registrations and fewer enrolments and fewer admissions to education programs. There is a lack of interest.

What is the reason? We consulted 424 francophone students across the province, and research shows that 41% of students said they did not have the patience needed to become a teacher and manage behavioural problems. That is the first reason.

The second reason they cite for their lack of interest in education is that it takes too much time. It is well known that corrections and planning are done during the weekend, at night, and that overtime isn't paid. Those perceptions must be overcome to encourage students to choose the field of education.

You mentioned the $80 million. Of course, that would be welcome because generally when we see a shortage in one area, we implement initiatives to attract people. Sometimes, it's a matter of reducing the cost of university registration or admission.

It is very symbolic. We are simply saying that there is a shortage and that we will pay a percentage of the tuition fees of those who choose education. This would encourage students. I am relating this to the financial aspect of the $80 million. It is simply a matter of alleviating students' tax problems or debts to encourage them to study in this field.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Levesque.

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

Before we finish this first part, and before we get to the second panel, who are from the Northwest Territories, I want to let the witnesses know that they can stay. It's a public meeting, so they can stay if they wish. They are welcome.

I think Ms. Gladu asked for some information, but if there is any additional information that you think would be helpful to the committee, please send it to us. Remember, we're not in your experts' shoes. If you are talking about funding, please specify which funding. For example, specify whether it is the OLEP or provincial funding, so that we are clear on what it is. Feel free to do so.

Before we briefly suspend the meeting to welcome the next panel, I want to send a message. This is a public meeting and Canadians are listening. I imagine that many school boards listen to us in minority communities. In Quebec, it's the anglophone communities, and outside Quebec, it's the francophone communities. All members of the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones.

as well as all the members of the Quebec English School Boards Association will receive a questionnaire very soon.

The school boards, school districts, whatever their name, all the members of the two national organizations I just mentioned, namely the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones and the Quebec English School Board Association, will receive a questionnaire directly related to this study. It is important that it be filled out. I think the deadline is December 31.

I want to say to those who are listening online that we need this, because it will really help us produce an excellent report. With that, I will briefly suspend the meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We'll reconvene the meeting.

Welcome to the committee. For this second part of meeting number 114 of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, we welcome, also as part of the study on the minority language education continuum, the President of the Commission scolaire francophone des Territoires du Nord-Ouest, Mr. Jean de Dieu Tuyishime.

As we normally do, we will give you five minutes to make your presentation. After that, you will be asked interactive rounds of questions. Each of the political parties will participate.

Mr. Tuyishime, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Jean de Dieu Tuyishime, Chairman, Commission scolaire francophone des Territoires du Nord-Ouest]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Committee members, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I am here to present the crucial issues related to French-language education in francophone minority communities in Canada, more specifically in the Northwest Territories. My presentation will be divided into three parts: kindergarten to grade 12, early childhood, and finally, post-secondary, if I have enough time.

Access to French-language schools in minority communities is essential to preserving the French language and culture. In the Northwest Territories, two French-language schools serve the community: École Allain St-Cyr in Yellowknife, which is currently at its full capacity of 200 students, and École Boréale in Hay River, whose student numbers are steadily declining. This imbalance is mainly due to a lack of adequate infrastructure, which directly affects the ability of schools to attract and retain students.

Funding, particularly from the Official Languages in Education Program, the OLEP, continues to pose a serious challenge. Although the last Action Plan for Official Languages announced an increase in funding, we see a decrease in the amount allocated per student. This situation is worrisome as the needs in francophone minority schools continue to grow. To meet those growing challenges, it is imperative that per student funding from the OLEP be not only restored to its previous levels, but also increased to better support francophone communities.

Moreover, reliable data on the number of rights holders is essential if we are to request infrastructure equivalent to that of English-language schools and meet the growing needs of the community. Statistics Canada's census regarding rights holders plays a key role in that process. Recent census data have already led to negotiations for the creation of new educational infrastructure.

However, it will be crucial for Statistics Canada to continue estimating the number of rights holders in future censuses. This process makes it possible to track demographic trends and adapt services to the changing needs of francophone minority communities. The lack of adequate infrastructure and funding undermines the ability of French-language schools to offer an education equivalent to that of English-language schools. That is why it is necessary to strengthen infrastructure investments and guarantee equitable funding to ensure the real equality and vitality of francophone education in Canada.

Access to French-language day care services is fundamental to establishing a solid educational continuum and fighting assimilation. Unfortunately, there is a lack of French-language day care centres in many regions, including the Northwest Territories. For example, a 38-space day care in Yellowknife serves the francophone population, but there is still a list of 50 children waiting for a space. There are no French-language day care facilities in places like Hay River, Fort Smith or Inuvik. This situation seriously compromises the continuity of French-language education.

In the absence of French-language day care, many children are forced to use English-language services, reducing the likelihood that they will continue their education in French. It is therefore crucial to increase funding for the creation of new francophone day care centres in those underserved regions. At the same time, there is a need to promote the training of early childhood educators to meet the growing demand.

With regard to post-secondary education, the lack of post-secondary French-language institutions and programs in western Canada poses a major problem for student retention in the francophone education system. Knowing that their post-secondary education will probably be in English, many students drop out of French-language education before they even finish high school. This phenomenon undermines the continuity of francophone education and student loyalty to francophone schools. It is essential to recognize that the lack of post-secondary options in French has a direct impact on the vitality of francophone communities because it limits their economic and cultural development.

Finally, from early childhood to adulthood, every francophone child must have the opportunity to receive quality education in his or her mother tongue. This is a necessary condition for ensuring the sustainability and vitality of our communities.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Tuyishime. You finished on time.

During the first round of questions and answers, each political party will have six minutes.

We'll start with the Conservative Party.

Mr. Généreux, you have the floor.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. By the way, Mr. Lightbound chairs the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology, and I have to congratulate you, because food here is better. However, Mr. Lightbound is more generous with the time he gives us to ask questions, and he doesn't cut us off. I think that should be taken into consideration.

Thank you to the witnesses.

Good afternoon, Mr. Tuyishime. I hope you're doing well. You just said, in concluding your testimony, that the education continuum must be of the best quality, from early childhood to university. Given your conclusion, do you feel that this is not the case in your region right now? If so, is it because education doesn't get enough funding? You will certainly answer in the affirmative. If that's the case, is it more specifically due to inflation? The other witnesses we heard—you may have heard them as well—told us that inflation had played a significant role in reducing the amounts spent on francophone education.

[Jean de Dieu Tuyishime]

Thank you.

Our goal is always to offer our students quality education in our schools in their mother tongue. We are very proud to say that we still have quality teachers. However, it must be said that the competition is quite harsh. We also know that there is a labour shortage across Canada, and it's an even greater challenge for us, since we live in the north. Not everyone wants to venture into areas where it is -30°C or -40°C to offer their services. This represents an additional challenge. Moreover, the other big challenge with that is the lack of day care spaces for families. Perhaps we will discuss it.

In short, as far as the quality of services is concerned, although recruiting teachers is a major challenge, we've been fortunate to have enough teachers so far. However, there is a funding challenge because the amount allocated per student is insufficient.