Official Languages Committee on Oct. 24th, 2024

[Gisèle Bourque, Chief Executive Officer, Fédération des conseils scolaires francophones de l'Alberta]

Yes, I can confirm that we are responsible for managing enrolment. If parents can prove that they attended French-language schools in their country, we can accept their children in our schools.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Bourque, Ms. Maisonneuve and Mr. Giroux.

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

We will now go to Marc Serré, of the Liberal Party, for six minutes.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mrs. Bourque, Ms. Maisonneuve and Mr. Giroux, thank you for your presentations today. You have different perspectives. You discuss the situation in Alberta, on one hand, and that in Sudbury and elsewhere in Ontario, on the other.

I'm going to ask both organizations virtually the same questions, starting with Mr. Giroux.

First, I'd like to congratulate Collège Boréal and its employees across Ontario for the exceptional work they do, not just for French-language education, but also for immigration, economic development and agriculture. I'm pleased to have you here once again to discuss that, Mr. Giroux.

As you know, we previously discussed the education continuum at the post-secondary level. Today we want to take a look at early childhood.

Your educational institution trains early childhood educators. We know that there are educator shortages and certification problems and that immigration is part of the picture. Would you please briefly describe the challenges you face as an educational institution?

Similarly, Ms. Maisonneuve, I'd like to ask you what Alberta's challenges are. They're slightly different from those of Collège Boréal because, in a way, you represent employers.

Mr. Giroux, first, would you please tell us more about the funding of day care centres and the shortage, recruitment and retention of personnel?

[Daniel Giroux]

Thank you, Mr. Serré. It's always a pleasure to see you.

The early childhood education program is certainly the largest of all of Collège Boréal's programs. In post-secondary and regular programs, we have 252 students this year. There's also the apprenticeship component, which is for students who are already working in day care centres and the other training modules, such as online courses. The number of students in that component ranges from 150 to 200 a year. That's enormous for Collège Boréal.

Despite our efforts, we can't provide enough graduates for our partners. In Sudbury, for example, four francophone day care centres have shut down for lack of francophone educators. Some centres can't open, even though they have unbelievable waiting lists.

Here's another example. Michelle Boileau, the mayor of Timmins, a city only a three-hour drive north of Sudbury, just had a second child and said she had to wait 18 months for a space at a francophone day care. There are no spaces for the children of the francophone community. Assimilation begins when children are forced to attend anglophone day care centres. But this is the start of the continuum; everything really begins in day care. It's an enormous need.

Foreign students occupy an important place for us. They constitute nearly 50% of our student population. Following the announcement that day care spaces would be available for $10 a day, which it is good news for parents, we noticed a sharp increase in needs. Parents want a right to those day care spaces. However, according to the announcement made by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, foreign students will no longer be eligible for education programs for early childhood services. As a result, we will be losing 50% of our students in the early childhood sector at a time when there's already a shortage. It will be a complete disaster. The government promotes $10-a-day spaces on the one hand, and cuts us off on the other, by requiring, among its restrictive immigration measures, that individuals must be qualified, despite the need for more francophone day care centres.

This is a crisis for us. It's unfortunate for our partners, the community day care centres, our school boards and the entire continuum. It's one of the biggest issues and the greatest concern for Ontario's francophone community.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Ms. Maisonneuve, I'll put the same question to you. What can we do to encourage high school students to apply to Collège Boréal or to take courses in the early childhood education field?

[Sylvianne Maisonneuve]

Early intervention starting in early childhood is definitely essential for the continuation of our education programs from kindergarten to grade 12.

As for graduates, the current trend in Alberta is to offer dual credit programs to encourage students to learn a trade and to start their occupational training while they're still in high school. These programs are highly developed for the linguistic majority but unfortunately less so for the minority.

Post-secondary study programs are provided at the University of Alberta's Campus Saint‑Jean for early childhood education. Partnerships can be established in this area, although accessibility is still a challenge. As you know, Alberta is a very large province, as are many other provinces.

I'm going to ask Mrs. Bourque to complete my answer.

[Gisèle Bourque]

Campaigns should definitely be organized to increase awareness of occupations in the early childhood field.

I should also mention that kindergarten is still considered as part of early childhood in Alberta and is only 50% funded. The francophone school boards have decided to offer full-time kindergarten—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Pardon me, Mrs. Bourque, but I must interrupt because the six minutes of speaking time are more than up. You may be able to continue in answer to another question.

[Gisèle Bourque]

All right, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Pardon me for performing that delicate task.

I now turn the floor over to the committee's second vice-chair, the member of the Bloc Québécois, Mario Beaulieu.

Mr. Beaulieu, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mrs. Bourque, I'm going to give you an opportunity to complete your answer.

[Gisèle Bourque]

All right.

Alberta's francophone school boards have made the somewhat difficult decision to offer a full-time educational program for kindergarten pupils, whereas anglophone pupils attend kindergarten on only a part-time basis. We were forced to do so as a result of school-transport-related challenges. Given the very large territory that has to be covered, it would be impossible for buses to return the children to their homes and then drive back to school to pick up the older children.

In the circumstances, a large portion of the federal funding that we receive under the official languages in education program is used to fund full-time kindergarten. Full-time kindergarten is a very good thing for francization and for the system, but there's a lack of funding for secondary schools. We lack the resources to encourage students to choose careers in the early childhood field, for example. Our secondary schools could offer optional vocational courses to show students what certain post-secondary courses are like in the early childhood field, for example. However, we don't have the funding for that kind of programming.

In short, there should be a campaign to increase awareness of early childhood occupations and optional courses that would give students a foretaste of what a career in the field might be.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Giroux, did you say that you had 4,000 to 5,000 early childhood students and that they were mainly foreign students? I didn't really understand. Would you please explain that to us a little more?

[Daniel Giroux]

There are actually 252 students in post-secondary or regular programs. There are also different learning methods. Some students are already working in day cares and taking courses remotely. That's the case of approximately 150 to 200 students. In all, including all teaching methods, there are roughly 450 students in early childhood programs.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You say that the day care sector is experiencing a crisis. Would you please explain to us realistically how you can escape that situation?

[Daniel Giroux]

One of the things that we've started doing is to work with the various communities. For example, if there's a major shortage in Windsor, in southern Ontario, we'll work with the school boards and day care centres specifically on recruitment, somewhat as Mrs. Bourque mentioned earlier. In many instances, we recruit international students, not just Canadian students.

For example, we started offering a post-secondary study program in Tunis, Tunisia, for the first time this past September. We're also going to open a second program in Rabat, Morocco. We are established in those cities and are already beginning to recruit students to come to Canada.

One of the strategies we're working on is to take every opportunity to advertise Collège Boréal. We're doing the same thing in many other fields, such as the trades. That's a specific example of what we're doing to support the francophone school boards and day care centres that are currently in crisis.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Collège Boréal is more or less equivalent to Quebec's CEGEPs for occupational courses, isn't it?

[Daniel Giroux]

It's similar, except that, unlike CEGEPs, Ontario's colleges can also offer three and four-year bachelor's degree programs in nursing science, social work, business and public administration, for example.

So we offer two and three-year programs as well as four-year programs. It's a college model combined with a quasi-university model. We offer programs for a broad variety of occupations ranging from business and community services to the environment and agriculture. It's quite varied.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's excellent.

Ms. Maisonneuve, you mentioned a judgment that was rendered in June 2020 and that has helped improve matters. Would you please clarify that a little more?

[Sylvianne Maisonneuve]

In June 2020, the Supreme Court ruled in a case involving the Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie‑Britannique and the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie‑Britannique as appellants, and the province as respondent. The judgment marked a turning point for Canada as a whole in that it strongly supported the claims of francophone school boards across Canada and furthered the entire idea of substantive equivalence. That principle means that, if a reasonable parent determines that a French-language school doesn't offer services equivalent to those provided by an English-language school in the same locality, then there is no substantive equivalence. The judgment strongly supports the right to demand school boards across Canada.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Do you have to go back to the courts every time you want to claim your rights? Has that judgment made a major change for your organization?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please answer in less than 10 seconds.

[Sylvianne Maisonneuve]

It has helped us somewhat, of course. Will it mean we don't have to go to court? The answer is no. It's an extremely difficult and exhausting process. It takes a lot of time. It certainly isn't ideal.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Maisonneuve.

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

We will begin the final six-minute intervention, for which Ms. McPherson, from Alberta, will replace Ms. Ashton.

Ms. McPherson, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It is a delight to see some of my fellow Albertans on the witness list today. It's very nice to see you both. I wish you could be here in person.

I'm also, of course, extraordinarily proud to represent Edmonton Strathcona, which has the French Quarter in it and such a dynamic French community, including Campus Saint-Jean, where I am studying French.

I have to say that when I started this job, I didn't speak any French at all because of the failure of the education system in Alberta to provide French immersion training opportunities for me. I have been studying at Campus Saint-Jean, so I'm going to ask some questions in French. I will ask you all for your forgiveness, because I am still very much a learner.

I've had many meetings with representatives of the Association canadienne-française de l'Alberta, or ACFA, and I know they've clearly demonstrated the enormous discrepancy between the number of available spaces at francophone schools and the number of school-age children living in francophone homes in Alberta or whose Albertan parents want them to receive a bilingual education.

My riding of Edmonton Strathcona has five French-language schools that are part of the Conseil scolaire Centre‑Nord.

My question is this: How many schools should there be, and how many other French-language schools should there be in Alberta to meet the demand?