Official Languages Committee on Oct. 24th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 116 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

To prevent feedback incidents, I would ask all in-person participants to read the guidelines that are written on the small cards on the table.

I would also like to remind participants of the following points. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Members, please raise your hand if you wish to speak, whether participating in person or via Zoom. The clerk and I will do our best to respect the order in which people have raised their hands in order to request the floor.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on April 29, 2024, we are resuming our study of the minority-language education continuum. The first hour will be reserved for the hearing of witnesses, whom I will now introduce.

First, I would like to welcome Daniel Giroux, who is the president of Collège Boréal.

We also have two representatives from the Fédération des conseils scolaires francophones de l'Alberta: Ms. Bourque, its chief executive, and Ms. Maisonneuve, its president.

Welcome, everyone.

Mr. Giroux has previously appeared before the committee, but I believe this is a first appearance for Ms. Maisonneuve and Ms. Bourque. So I'm going to explain how we proceed. It's quite simple: I allow each organization five minutes in which to present what it wants us to know. I am strict about time management, for both the witnesses and other people around the table. The objective is for individuals to take full advantage of the time at their disposal to speak or ask questions so that the meeting is more dynamic.

I will begin by turning the floor over to Mr. Giroux for five minutes.

And by that, I mean five New Brunswick minutes, not northern Ontario minutes.

Mr. Giroux, the floor is yours.

[Daniel Giroux, President, Collège Boréal]

Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. My colleague, our vice-president, comes from New Brunswick, so I know what you mean.

My name is Daniel Giroux, and I am the president of Collège Boréal.

Two of the 24 colleges in Ontario are francophone, including Collège Boréal. Our college was established in a large region comprising 37 sites and 27 communities. It offers more than 70 post-secondary or regular study programs as well as vocational training programs.

Since some 23,500 students and clients pass through our institution every year, the continuum and the connections we maintain with our boards are very important to us.

Collège Boréal received some very good news this year: We are the only Ontario college that has recorded rising numbers of Canadian students over the past three years. More specifically, the number of first-year students at our institution increased by 15.1%. That's excellent news for us.

Ontario's 24 colleges, like their students, receive annual report cards, which are posted to their websites. The purpose of this practice, which has been ongoing for 24 years, is to gauge the satisfaction of students, graduates and the employers who hire our graduates. Collège Boréal has received top marks among all Ontario colleges in 21 of those 24 years. We are extremely proud of that fact.

Furthermore, Collège Boréal is the only Ontario college that guarantees graduates a job. This is an initiative that we call the “Boréal guarantee”. If students graduate from Collège Boréal and can't find a job in their field within a year of graduating, we refund all tuition fees. That will give you an idea of how confident we are in the quality of our training.

Today I would like to address three issues.

The first is enhancing of the official languages in education [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We lost you, Mr. Giroux, but I don't think your microphone is muted, unless you accidentally pressed a button, because I see a red light on your headset. Don't worry; I've stopped the clock while we try to solve the problem.

Just a minute. I'm being told that there may be a technical problem in the room. We're going to allow the technicians the time to solve it.

I'm told that the problem has now been solved.

Can everyone hear Mr. Giroux on Zoom?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

We can't hear Mr. Samson either.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, fortunately we can't hear Mr. Samson.

[Some voices]

Oh, oh! (laughter)

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Giroux, we can't hear the sound in the room.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I can hear both.

Incidentally, you have a nice voice, Mr. Samson.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Ask Mr. Godin and the others if they can hear clearly too.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I apologize to everyone joining the meeting by video conference. I think this is the first time this has ever happened.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Yes, Mr. Serré, Mr. Samson does indeed have a nice voice.

I can confirm that I clearly heard the remarks of my friend Mr. Samson and those of Mr. Iacono as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please try again, Mr. Giroux.

[Daniel Giroux]

Can you hear me?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, perfectly.

Please continue. You have about three minutes left.

[Daniel Giroux]

Thank you.

I hope you heard what I said about the “Boréal guarantee”, our way of guaranteeing our graduates a job.

First, we request an enhancement of the official languages in education program, funding of which has been frozen since 2003. As a result, our college has received exactly the same core funding under the program since 2003, 21 years ago. Considering the cumulative increase in the cost of living, that reduces our capacity to act by 70%, which is enormous.

In 2021, the government promised to increase funding for francophone and bilingual post-secondary institutions to $80 million a year on a permanent basis. We therefore request that our funding be raised to $80 million a year, as was promised in 2021, rather than maintained at $32 million a year.

Second, we request that a new scholarship be introduced for studies in French. We know that the Department of Canadian Heritage offers $3,000 scholarships to students enrolling in a francophone program. However, that scholarship is offered solely to students from anglophone school boards who have completed an immersion program. Consequently, students from francophone school boards are denied access to that scholarship.

Here's where the concept of cumulative assimilation becomes an issue, and this is a problem for us at Collège Boréal. Some 50% of students in francophone school boards decide to study in English rather than take the same program offered at Collège Boréal in French.

Consequently, it's vital that students from francophone school boards be offered scholarships to continue their studies in French.

Third, we request that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada be reformed. According to forecasts, francophone immigrants—we hope—will constitute 8% of total immigration by 2026. However, recent decisions will in fact exclude international students wishing to enrol in study programs critically important for our communities in the fields of early childhood education, technology, and electrical engineering in particular, and training programs for heavy machinery technicians. Those students will no longer be eligible for study permits in Canada.

It is therefore essential for the francophonie that programs to encourage international students be expanded because that would make a very rich contribution to the francophonie across Canada.

That's all I had to tell you for the moment.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Giroux.

Now it's the turn of the Fédération des conseils scolaires francophones de l'Alberta.

Ms. Maisonneuve, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Sylvianne Maisonneuve, President, Fédération des conseils scolaires francophones de l'Alberta]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of the francophone school boards of Alberta, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to appear before you today.

My name is Sylvianne Maisonneuve, and I am president of the Fédération des conseils scolaires de l'Alberta, or FCSFA. Established in 1995, the FCSFA represents the four francophone school boards of Alberta. The four boards created the FCSFA as an instrument for collaboration, co-operation, advocacy and applying political pressure. The federation enables the four school boards to work together on issues of common interest and to provide services to all francophone schools in the province while enabling all boards to act completely autonomously.

As of September 2024, approximately 9,550 students from kindergarten to grade 12 were attending Alberta's 45 francophone schools. However, Census 2021 revealed that more than 67,000 Albertan children were entitled to instruction at a French-language school. After Ontario, Alberta has the largest number of children entitled to an education in French outside Quebec. However, only a fraction of that number have access to and attend a French-language school in Alberta.

Why is there such a difference between the potential and actual numbers of children attending Alberta's francophone schools?

One of the major challenges that account for that difference is the underfunding of Alberta's francophone school boards, which for many years have inherited the obsolete infrastructure that anglophone school boards no longer need. Francophone school boards are thus forced to spend a portion of their budgets to maintain their buildings. They also have to provide school transport for students who are scattered across a very large territory.

In addition, certain school programming strategies are designed by the ministry for the province's education system as a whole. However, certain aspects of those strategies prevent the strategies themselves from being applied in the francophone system.

In these circumstances, every dollar that Ottawa provides to the minority French-language school system is a step in the right direction. It enables Alberta's school boards to offer certain initiatives that wouldn't otherwise be possible. However, given the enormous challenges that must be overcome, this is simply not enough.

In June 2020, the Supreme Court of Canada held that the Province of British Columbia was systematically underfunding the francophone education system. Since then, Alberta's francophone school boards have observed some improvement in the form of new schools, school renovation projects and planning for future projects. However, much remedial work remains to be done to establish school infrastructure that can compete with that of the majority and provide reasonable bus routes for students.

For our communities, francophone schools are often a crossroads where everything happens. However, the province gives no consideration to community spaces. Children in minority communities must have access to French from a very early age. Unfortunately, we can only provide preschool spaces if any are available, which is not always the case. A federal contribution to funding for community spaces while new schools are being built is vitally important to the survival of francophone minority communities.

Hiring and maintaining enough qualified personnel at Alberta's francophone school boards is a major challenge, particularly in the province's rural communities. The Campus Saint‑Jean is admittedly a very important post-secondary educational institution that helps promote the recruitment of new employees. However, francophone immigrants also fulfill certain human resource needs. On that subject, it's important to note that, in recent years, immigration has helped increase the number of students attending Alberta's francophone schools, and that's still the case today.

On the one hand, the chronic underfunding of Alberta's francophone school boards limits access to a French-language education for rights holders and francophone newcomers. On the other hand, it's an obstacle to the development and consolidation of the educational continuum in French as a first language in minority communities. It is essential that rights holders be enumerated for the purposes of the demands that the francophone minority school boards must make.

In a context where Canada is a bilingual country, federal government support has a direct effect on the development of francophone minority communities, and that includes the education system. On the one hand, we have to celebrate a very positive 30-year record of francophone schools management in Alberta, and, on the other, according to what section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms provides, the right to French-language education isn't being honoured where reasonable parents can be dissuaded from sending their children to a French-language school because an English-language school offers them a better educational experience. Despite the efforts—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Maisonneuve. You will be able to say more in response to questions from committee members. I'm sure of that.

Since this is your first appearance before the committee, I want to inform you that each political party is allotted six minutes in the first round of questions.

We will begin with the Conservative Party, more specifically with a francophone member from British Columbia.

Mr. Dalton, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Giroux and Ms. Maisonneuve, thank you very much for your testimony. It's important for us.

Mr. Giroux, you mentioned that Collège Boréal had 36 or 37 sites. I don't remember the exact number. Where is your largest site?

Some of those sites must certainly be small. How does that affect collaboration? Are many courses offered online?

[Daniel Giroux]

That's an excellent question.

We have 37 sites scattered across 27 communities. The largest campus is in Sudbury, approximately four hours north of Toronto. It's the main campus. The second-largest site is in Toronto and the third in Ottawa. The other sites are scattered from Windsor to Timmins in northern Ontario.

Under our model, we offer not only post-secondary or regular programs, but employment-related programs and immigration services as well. We have 14 sites where training is provided. We offer institutional services for the Department of Citizenship and Immigration. We also offer language training services in both English and French. We've also designed a socio-economic integration model to assist newcomers in finding short-term employment as well as medium and long-term employment, which in some instances requires that those individuals take training or complete an upgrade program. Thanks to our various models and services, all those sites are viable.

The other component we rely on is technology. Collège Boréal has always been forward-looking. For example, we've been using a video conference system since 1995. We often use new technologies such as the Zoom Webinars.

In small communities such as Hearst and Kapuskasing, we have only two or three students in the early childhood education program. We sometimes have five or six in Windsor. In all, however, Collège Boréal admits 252 students to regular post-secondary early childhood education programs every year. We also have 150 apprenticing students who are already working in the care centres. So that amounts to 450 to 500 students every year in the early childhood field alone. Without—

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I'll interrupt you there because I have more questions for you and the other witnesses.

I'd like you to tell us a little about tuition fees. Have they risen significantly?

I'd also like you to tell us how important newcomers are for Collège Boréal and what percentage of your student body they represent.

I'm somewhat surprised to learn that students who come from immersion programs can apply for a scholarship but not students from the schools of francophone school boards. I may have misunderstood that.

If you could tell us all that in 45 seconds, that would be nice.

[Daniel Giroux]

I'll try, Mr. Dalton.

Tuition fees are $2,700 per year, the lowest across the country. Including provincial funding and tuition fees, we stand at 44% of the national average. Tuition fees declined slightly, by 13%, in 2019 and have been frozen ever since. So our tuition fees are quite moderate for Ontario.

As for the scholarship for French-language studies, that was a shock for us too and for Ontario's 12 francophone school boards. It isn't acceptable to encourage only students who've taken an immersion program offered by an anglophone school board. In many instances, an immersion program amounts to one course in French. What constitutes an immersion program isn't always clearly defined.

If you really want to promote the education continuum, you absolutely must afford the same opportunities and advantages to students from both anglophone and francophone school boards.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Giroux.

Now I'd like to go to Ms. Maisonneuve. Incidentally, I have relatives named Maisonneuve in Alberta.

First, I'd like to discuss the importance of newcomers in francophone school boards. I know that, under the Constitution, Canadian parents whose first language is French have a right to send their children to francophone schools but that newcomers who speak French do not.

How does that work in Alberta? Does the provincial government open the door to newcomers who speak French?

[Sylvianne Maisonneuve]

My answer to that question is yes. Francophone school boards are fortunately entitled to manage school admissions across the province without government intervention. We're independent in that respect, and that's a good thing.

I'd like to turn the floor over to Mrs. Bourque, if she wishes to add something.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Please answer within 10 seconds, Mrs. Bourque.