Official Languages Committee on March 28th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'll stop the clock and look into it.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

It's working now.

Would you please repeat your question?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Since Haiti is the only francophone country in America and is experiencing extreme violence, would you be prepared to intervene specifically to facilitate the processing of cases related to that country?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

It will depend on the individual file. If there's somebody who is seeking to come and may qualify for our programs, if there's a particularly urgent situation, there are some precedents for acting before. We don't have a specific response to Haiti the way we have to Ukraine and Afghanistan, for example. To the extent that the humanitarian situation demands a response, we always look at those things.

As part of the francophone immigration strategy that we're developing, I'd be happy to have further conversations about the potential in Haiti.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'm going back to the African countries.

Are you prepared to grant more temporary permits to foreign students from North African countries, which are the main francophone pools?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, I think that's essential.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister and Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr.Chair.

I'd like to go back to immigration targets.

You said you wanted to reach the 4.4% target this year. However, we'll have to establish restoration targets in order to meet the 2003 target and slow the demographic decline of francophone communities.

Are you committing to raising these 4.4% francophone immigration targets for next year and subsequent years and to making the necessary effort to achieve them?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

The short answer to your question is yes, but I just want to be specific that it will depend on conversations that I've not yet had.

I did have the chance to meet with FCFA previously. We've been working towards the 2023 goal for some time now and I'm confident we can achieve it. To the extent that we want to do more after we achieve and hopefully surpass that target, of course we're willing to do more.

More specifically, one thing I'm really interested in, which I think the committee would benefit from knowing about and perhaps advising me on, is that there's a massive opportunity

to use the flexibility the express entry system affords. It would be a good thing if we could select francophones with health care and teaching skills so they could come and work in our communities.

If there are other strategies that people think we can adopt to actually do this, it would would be very helpful to me.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Pardon me for interrupting, Minister.

There are obviously possibilities for certain African countries, for example, but the problem with the refusal rates for those countries is systemic. We have to put an end to the situation.

Going back to the French-language services your department provides, the quality of which isn't up to snuff, we've heard that in testimony before the committee and can see the same message in the media: your department isn't doing enough to protect francophones' rights.

When will you be able to provide French-language services that don't cause additional delays for people who request them?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

It's essential that clients receive quality service in the language of their choice. When I see—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

The next rounds will be five minutes and will be shared by Mr. Godin and Mr. Généreux.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'd like to go back to the question I asked you earlier.

You said in your opening remarks that you were satisfied with the francophone immigration objectives, targets and indicators set forth in Bill C‑13. However, what troubles me and what we can see in other programs is that the bill establishes no performance requirement.

How can you assure Canadians that commitments will be met this time when all the programs we've been discussing for months, indeed years, have failed to achieve the desired results?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Some measures have had a positive impact, but, to your point, I need to show people.

It's not enough for me to discuss the problem. I think it's essential that we achieve success. If we can gain some flexibility thanks to the express entry system, for example, and if we invest in the settlement program, I think we'll have a chance to show some results.

My challenge is that it doesn't happen in a couple of weeks or a couple of months. This is the kind of thing where I think we can hit our target next year. I think we can continue to do better. Time will prove me right or wrong.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Minister, I understand what you're saying, but wouldn't you need some additional tools? You're the Minister of IRCC right now, but someone else, a Liberal or Conservative, could occupy that position in future.

Shouldn't we find a way to establish a performance requirement? We constantly kick the can down the line, but Canadians aren't seeing the desired results; they're disappointed and have lost confidence in the government.

So how can you tell us that you're pleased with what's being proposed in this bill, when it doesn't provide for a performance requirement?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

The reason I'm pleased with the bill is that it would help protect the demographic weight of francophones in Canada. I think that's key in promoting French culture.

I agree with you on one point. It's essential that we get more power, that we allow greater flexibility in the express entry system.

The express entry system has shown itself to be very powerful. When we increased the points for francophone and bilingual newcomers, it doubled the success rate of people to come here. If we pair those extra points with flexibility so we can find the people in our inventory and get them to the communities where they're going to succeed, and then additionally fund settlement agencies, I think we can do very, very well.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

I now yield to my colleague Mr. Généreux.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have two minutes left.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

All right, Mr. Chair.

Minister, there are intergovernmental agreements for student funding, for example. Foreign students, particularly Africans, aren't always able to show they're financially independent.

Is the solution that might help them pay their tuition fees provided by the federal-provincial agreements?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

If there are supports that come from other sources of funds, then that is the kind of thing we could use. To the extent that there is funding for people, then certainly that would make a big difference.

That's not the only reason that some people are inadmissible to Canada. There are a whole host of other reasons. Some of them are based on security considerations; in some cases—I'll be careful here—it's based on whether they're likely to return home.

The conundrum I struggle with is that a lot of these students would make very good permanent residents, but still don't come in because of the proof of funds or the likelihood of their returning home. Those are challenges that I'm trying to develop a strategy to overcome, because I think they make excellent permanent residents.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

To me, it looks like you're managing a lunatic asylum.

We feel as though we've become IRCC officers in our own ridings. Virtually all my colleagues on both sides of the House say so. We're increasingly managing immigration cases, and it's hard for us to get answers from your department. Response times no longer make any sense. We're constantly forced to try and try again, and cases get stalled for long periods of time. This puts stress on the applicants in addition to the financial stress they experience.

The situation isn't right.

Are you short of employees?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

No. We've just added them and we've actually turned the corner....

Mr. Chair, I see that I'm about to run out of time, but if you'll indulge me for five seconds, I will say that as of last week, we are processing a lot more cases than we were in the second half of last year. There are more than 147,000 cases that have been processed, and by the end of February, there were more than 100,000 approvals.

We're ahead of schedule because of the measures we put in place. There's more still to take hold, and I'm going to keep going.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Congratulations, Minister. I distinctly remember that you couldn't speak French when we began sitting together in the House, but I see you've managed to learn it. Congratulations as well on your new position.

The committee has been discussing immigration issues for a long time. The francophone community outside Quebec has been discussing targets and their importance for a long time too. Every time a francophone community fails to meet targets, that furthers its long-term assimilation. That's why francophone communities keenly want those targets met.

Do you know whether your department conducts follow‑up before the end of the year? If it did, we could determine, for example, whether you've reached 1% francophone immigration in the second quarter, 2%, and so on.

Otherwise that might be a good recommendation that the committee could make.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I don't want to tell the committee what it should recommend. It's for this committee to decide. However, to answer your question, we keep track of this on an ongoing basis. It's not necessarily as regimented, as you said, in this state.

Last week, I was asking this question of our officials who are in charge of processing, and I have to say they have done.... There is Dan Mills in particular. I don't like to single people out, but he's done a phenomenal job of trying to make sure that we process as many people as possible in really challenging circumstances and making sure that we don't lose sight of this fact.

Francis, if you'll allow me, I come from a small town that was losing people, young people, fast. However, I wasn't seeing my small town shrink because of the language we spoke or my culture, it was because of where I lived. To have that layered on top of who you are as a person, and your cultural identity, brings this to a whole new level of importance.

I am fixated on trying to help solve this problem—I'm going to do whatever I can—and I'll take whatever recommendations this committee has to help augment the number of new francophone arrivals.