Official Languages Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses who are with us today.

Mr. Doucet, you said that we need to ensure that the act protects French-language services in New Brunswick to the same extent as the province of New Brunswick's own official languages act.

What amendment would be necessary to ensure this protection?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

A grandfather clause should be inserted in the act to ensure an exception in New Brunswick, that is, where there is sufficient demand for services in French. You have to understand that, according to the criteria currently set out in the act, the only places where there is sufficient demand are in the northern part of the province and in a few regions where francophone communities are in a minority situation.

I will just give you an example.

In the Saint John region, Acadians form a very small minority. Proportionally, there are more Acadians in Saint John than in Caraquet, in the north of the province. However, French language services and communications are not available everywhere in the Saint John area.

To halt the decline of French, it is important to harmonize with the act the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which recognizes the linguistic specificity of New Brunswick.

We also believe that it is possible to solve this problem by adding regulations.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

The act must reflect the current reality of families and people who want to live in different places. As a Franco-Ontarian, I can tell you that all Franco-Ontarians used to live in eastern Ottawa. Now they are scattered all over the city, which is problematic for service providers. I somewhat understand what you mean. Obviously, we're going to have to address that.

Ms. Audet, you talked about—and I think my colleagues did as well—training, informal learning and certificates to recognize them.

In terms of certificates, are the skills recognized by the provinces or by the service providers?

[Mona Audet]

I wanted to say earlier that this is part of the work that RESDAC does. However, RESDAC is going to work with its education partners to do compliant assessments. Indeed, we want to make sure that our evaluations of the knowledge acquired by these people during non-formal and informal training are good.

We will work with researchers, adult educators and teachers. We want to make sure that the skills and knowledge that people have acquired in order to obtain a diploma, a certification or a digital badge are very well highlighted.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I often work with the employment service, at the local level, and I see that skills recognition matters to employers. However, employers also need to know that it is a recognition and that you are doing all you can to make them aware of it.

[Mona Audet]

I absolutely agree with that.

You have to work with the employers, because they're the ones who hire people. In Manitoba, as well as across Canada, no one is doing prior learning assessment. We see doctors, pediatricians, dentists, and other people with great skills, which are not, however, recognized by professional bodies. These people take the positions they are able to get. This is a loss, a waste of knowledge for Canada.

We need doctors, nurses, teachers and pediatricians. We need these people, especially in the health sector. So we need to recognize prior learning.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I love everything you say. You're singing the song that I love to sing. However, how do we relate this to Bill C‑13?

What amendments could we make to include what you're talking about?

[Mona Audet]

Mr. Drouin, if the Government of Canada recognized both informal and formal training, we would all benefit, whether it's your constituents, my children, my grandchildren, or citizens across Canada.

There are credentials for formal training, but now we need to ensure that non-formal and informal training opens up opportunities. Not everybody will get a degree, but the people who do get one will be able to use it. No matter what the field is, they will get recognition.

At the moment, this kind of training is not recognized. That's why we're asking that it be included in the act.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Ms. Audet and Mr. Drouin.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Audet, according to what you are saying, the people who provide informal and non-formal training do not necessarily have diplomas. Their knowledge is not necessarily recognized.

Under these conditions, how can we choose competent people?

[Mona Audet]

I'm not sure I understood the question. My device didn't work.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

According to what you said earlier, the skills of people who offer informal and non-formal training are not necessarily recognized.

Is that correct?

[Mona Audet]

No, I was saying that the skills of people who take training courses are not recognized. However, literacy trainers are often retired teachers. They help us give literacy courses. This includes digital and technological literacy, and so on. They are good trainers.

One of our partners in Ontario is setting up a program with a university to provide courses for literacy trainers and some prior learning assessment.

At Pluri-elles, in Manitoba, I'm fortunate to have retired teachers working for me. They are willing to do this work for a small salary, because they really believe in the development of their community and the people who live there.

I would like to clarify that I was talking earlier about the recognition of prior learning for people who are going to take the training. Perhaps I misspoke.

I wanted to clarify that point. Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu, for allowing me to do so.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

People must have this recognition. In my experience, we sometimes try to promote francization programs, but they become literacy programs. I worked in an organization where we provided recognition to the people we were training, but it was not official.

In the context of the Official Languages Act, as amended, what you want is that by recognizing the importance of the formal, non-formal and informal context, the government can financially support your organization or others to develop services.

Is that correct?

[Mona Audet]

You have to accept that people get recognition. I don't think we're talking about funding right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much, Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Audet, I'd like to ask you a question about the work that you and your organization do. I want to go back to statistics released this summer, which say that the number of people who speak French at home is declining across Canada.

Can you tell us about that? Can your team members tell us about the challenges you face in this context?

As a committee, we need to know what challenges you're facing so we can support you.

[Mona Audet]

If I may, I'm going to talk about Manitoba. We're from the same province, Ms. Ashton.

French is indeed declining. If we don't all work together, the French language will continue to decline. Take Manitoba, for example. The organization Pluri-elles opened 10 literacy centres throughout Manitoba. There are 12 homework centres. We're trying to help kids with learning disabilities at school so they don't end up in our classes later on.

We receive minimal funding from the province. We don't know how much money the province gets, basically. Does Manitoba receive lots of money for francophones, literacy programs and training programs? I have no idea. We're not part of the process. They don't hold consultations. We certainly could offer more programs. Unfortunately, you know how funding works.

What we're trying to do is help immigrants. We offer various programs to help women and immigrants learn French or improve their French. Many individuals speak French very well. However, in the case of refugees, they often don't have the opportunity to be educated in their country. For them, we have to start with basic literacy, which takes a lot more time.

Yes, the number of francophones is declining, but I believe that if we work together we can turn things around.

To improve the situation, we suggest including formal, non-formal and informal education in the act. That may help us target even more people. As a result, more people will be able to complete programs and enrich our beautiful French language, which is also my language.

I hope I've answered your question to your satisfaction.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Audet.

Mr. Lehoux, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being with us today.

Ms. Audet, the Fédération des francophones de la Colombie-Britannique fought for the language clauses.

Do you support requests to include language clauses in the bill?

[Mona Audet]

Yes, I support them.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

So it's important to you that they really be included in the act, as amended?

Is that correct?

[Mona Audet]

Yes, absolutely.

I just gave an example about the federal government transferring funds to the provinces. The education people negotiate with the provinces and the federal government, but the other groups don't, to my knowledge.

We certainly support including well-defined language clauses in the modernized act. We also want francophones to be consulted about their needs.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

I'd like to ask you a more specific question about workers.

We know that a significant problem exists with respect to the francophonie outside Quebec, and that is a labour shortage.

To what extent is the labour shortage also hurting French outside Quebec?

[Mona Audet]

The labour shortage is certainly being felt everywhere. I will let Mr. Desgagné answer the question.