Official Languages Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

That's precisely why we need a bill that has teeth and why we need to take our time. Sure, we need to act fast to prevent the decline of French, but we also need to take clear and precise measures and not rely on the goodwill of those in power to make recommendations.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 15 seconds left, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Doucet.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Arielle Kayabaga will now have six minutes to ask questions.

You have the floor, Ms. Kayabaga.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start by thanking the witnesses that are here today to help us move forward this very important piece of legislation for communities like mine. I'm a Franco-Ontarian from London, Ontario, where we're a minority francophone community, which is why it's very important to listen to what you have to say on the issue.

I'll start with you, Mr. Doucet. Someone mentioned earlier that the Official Languages Act wouldn't be reviewed for another 50 years. Bill C‑13 clearly specifies, however, that the bill can be reviewed every 10 years.

Could you tell us what it means for you to hear that the act can be reviewed every 10 years? What are the impacts this can have on your community?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

We're very much in favour of the proposed amendment that would force the government to do a legislative review every 10 years. In fact, this is modelled on New Brunswick's legislative model. Obviously we're happy with this because the government will be forced to start a process every 10 years. It also allows for some predictability.

I should add that, even if the bill says 10 years, nothing would prevent the federal government from modernizing the act in four or five years. The provision would force the government to launch a review process within 10 years.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

I think we all agree that we want a law that will support every francophone in Canada. We also want francophone communities to continue to grow all across Canada, not only in Quebec.

You mentioned earlier the urgent need to pass this bill. Could you elaborate on the urgent need to pass the bill? In other words, what are the issues that have brought you to take that position, as a member of a francophone minority community?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

As you must know, the 2021 census shows that the decline of French is proportionately greater in New Brunswick. Compared to the rest of Canada, New Brunswick has experienced the greatest decline in French.

The last time the act was modernized, I wasn't even born. The act's implementation took more than six years. I don't think that the federal government of a bilingual state can afford to wait any longer to modernize the act.

Our organization's stakeholders work very hard, as they do in every organization. They've invested a lot of money, time and resources into this bill since 2016.

I wouldn't go so far as to say we're impatient, but let's say we're very eager to start implementing this legislation.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Bill C‑13 provides for the government of Canada's commitment to advancing opportunities for members of English and French linguistic minority communities to pursue quality learning in their own language, throughout their lives, from early childhood to post-secondary education.

How will this provision improve the learning experience of francophone students in minority language communities?

Ms. Audet, you may answer the question as well, if you wish.

[Mona Audet]

It'll be a pleasure.

Formal education refers to universities, including the new university in Ontario.

The issue we're hoping emphasize in these proceedings is that of non-formal or informal learning, which involves the skills and abilities acquired in settings other than colleges and universities. The NCF tool, for instance, allows people to discover who they are, what their strengths and skills are, etc.

Organizations such as ours that work in the field of community employment could recognize on a case‑by‑case basis the skills and knowledge of those people looking for work by attaching digital badges and certificates to their work applications. This adds a great deal of value to the applications, in the eyes of the employers. People can claim to have skills in certain areas, but having the supporting certificates would simplify things for employers.

The same goes for colleges and universities. Imagine a young person that graduated from high school and took a number of courses with various organizations. If they can show evidence of this, then gaining admission to a college or university should be easier.

I hope my explanations were clear.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Yes.

In your opinion, what role can the provincial and territorial governments play in furtherance of this objective?

[Mona Audet]

We understand that there are agreements with the provinces and territories. I believe there should be language clauses that would allow each province and territory to interact with its francophone communities and determine their specific needs. That isn't happening at the current time, so I think we should take closer look at these language clauses.

The federal government could also work in collaboration with francophone communities. Our organization makes reports for financial backers. There should be some accountability to the federal government under certain language clauses.

Have I adequately answered your question?

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have roughly 10 seconds left.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Okay.

What would you consider to be positive results?

[Mona Audet]

Are you talking about positive measures?

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's all the time you have. I'm sorry, but you'll have the opportunity to return to the question later.

Mr. Mario Beaulieu, second vice-chair of the committee, now has six minutes to ask the next series of questions.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Good day. Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Doucet, you mentioned the political will of the federal government, the same government that appointed a lieutenant governor to New Brunswick that doesn't speak French, a move that was challenged in court. We have many such examples, including instances of non-compliance with the Official Languages Act.

Do you still believe we ought to trust the government, not include the desired changes in the act and wait for regulatory changes to occur instead?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

I'm not here to talk about politics. The proposed legislative framework certainly features important and worthwhile advances. We wouldn't hesitate to implement the provisions of the bill tomorrow morning if it were to pass in its current form.

On the issue of the lieutenant governor, the case will be heard by the court of appeal in 2023. We will have the opportunity to address the issue in due course.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I believe everyone here has a strong desire to support francophones outside Quebec, and I believe that Bill C‑13 is a real opportunity to move things forward and reinforce the act.

You can think on it, but as the saying goes, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I think there are situations where it's better to incorporate the desired changes in the act itself. You mentioned, for instance, the notion of “significant demand”, which goes back to the old principle of “where numbers warrant”. Wouldn't it be advisable to incorporate certain provisions in the act now to ensure the desired changes will occur?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

It is indeed possible to include provisions in the act. However, legal experts have advised us that we can achieve the same aims through regulation, whether on this particular issue or on that of federally regulated businesses.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

What you're saying, essentially, is that you have no requests with regards to Bill C‑13. Do I have that right?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

We currently have no specific requests since we'll be able to address these issues through regulation.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Do you think that Bill C‑13 has the necessary provisions to reverse the assimilation rate in New Brunswick as well as the decline of French?