Official Languages Committee on Oct. 4th, 2022

[Denis Desgagné]

Yes, you're absolutely right. There is a sense of threat, which the statistics prove, as my colleagues were saying.

International studies tell us that 52% of francophones in Canada live below Level 3, the level at which people can thrive socially and economically. What's more, 80% of respondents asked to complete the survey in English.

So the Réseau has a huge amount of work to do in that respect.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Okay.

In your opinion, how can the federal government counterbalance that to protect language minorities?

[Denis Desgagné]

I feel what we're looking to do with this amendment is to be able to build a much more synergistic continuum and work together on this lifelong learning process.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

How do you perceive federal government involvement in informal education?

[Denis Desgagné]

We hope it will help us work on a more holistic definition of the education continuum, with as shared objectives—formal, informal and non-formal—skills that will have been defined in a framework adapted to our realities in minority language situations.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

In your organization's view, what key impacts does the education continuum have on the vitality of minority language communities?

[Denis Desgagné]

We have such a huge amount of work to do on that. I wish I had 10 minutes to answer your question.

We need to socially engineer this through all of our organizations. I'm thinking of the President of the Treasury Board, who comes from our communities and is sensitive to civic action.

We also need to make it possible for francophones in minority situations to acquire the skills they need to thrive in the job market.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You talk a lot about the difference between “formal”, “non-formal” and “informal”. Can you describe those three terms in plain language so we can better understand them?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'm sorry, Mr. Iacono, but your time is up.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Desgagné, I will give you time to answer Mr. Iacono's question.

[Denis Desgagné]

We know what “formal” education is. As the president of the Réseau said, it's schooling from kindergarten to grade 12, and then college or university, in other words, learning where recognized credits are given out.

“Non-formal” education is organized. It could be a training session that an organization or an entrepreneur organizes for their employees. As the president mentioned, it's also everything people get on YouTube, or a downloaded training session or tutorial. It's organized, in the sense that people have an appointment at a certain time for the training.

“Informal” education happens day to day and isn't organized. It's the information you share sitting with colleagues, for example. It's what people learn from each other.

All these are therefore organized in a continuum, and when everything comes together you get pretty amazing synergy.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You said earlier that there was a special methodology in Quebec. Can you tell us about that?

[Denis Desgagné]

There are a number of approaches around the world, including bursaries, digital badges and microfinancing.

On that front, Quebec is likely a good example. We're learning from our colleagues in Quebec what methodology to implement here. We're currently doing a pilot project with the Coalition for Adult Training in Ontario to test out the Quebec approach.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Does your organization have a mandate with respect to Quebec?

[Denis Desgagné]

We work with Quebec.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay.

[Denis Desgagné]

We're learning from our colleagues and partners in Quebec.

We also work with our partners in other countries. For example, we participated in consultations at the International Conference on Adult Education that UNESCO organized in Morocco.

We're part of an international network, but we're connected to our neighbours from Quebec, to Canada's francophonie.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You said earlier that 52% of francophones are functionally illiterate. Is that the case in Quebec as well?

[Denis Desgagné]

Quebec has a higher literacy rate than the rest of Canada's francophonie. It's an average.

I want to make it clear that when I say Level 3, I'm talking about the level at which you can thrive in French. Some people are only at Level 2, but they are quite functional.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Why is that?

[Denis Desgagné]

I feel it's the education continuum. We've worked on methodology and pedagogy for a long time, but we've rarely all worked together to define skills.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Desgagné and Mr. Beaulieu.

Ms. Ashton, you have two and a half minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Audet, I'd like to talk about something you mentioned that's part of the feedback I get quite often when I talk to people in francophone communities outside Quebec, including my region here in Manitoba. I'm talking about the need to build a francophone community.

Here in Thompson, other than our French school and our French immersion school, we have no activities or opportunities for families to meet as a group in French outside school hours.

The issue of resources often comes up. As you said, we don't know what resources come from the federal government. In addition, we receive no support in that area from our provincial government. Do you think it's important to have clarity about the resources being sent to organizations?

I believe this also touches on the issue of language clauses in federal-provincial agreements, an amendment the FCFA has actually proposed for the bill.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Mona Audet]

I'm trying to organize my thoughts to give you a fairly clear answer.

When you work in the francophone communities for many years, as I have in Manitoba and Ontario, where we have partners, travelling to rural communities is as important as offering programming in the city. However, we often face a lack of resources to do that travelling. Colleges and universities can't open other branches elsewhere.

Language classes must require that francophones' needs are met. For example, if I were going to meet with people in Manitoba, I would tell them about Thompson and all the places where school boards offer programming to support people in educational settings, whether it's the parents or the adults accompanying the kids. These individuals must receive services in French to keep promoting the French language and living in French in our communities. We have so much work to do in that respect.

If the language clauses don't require that francophone communities' needs be taken into account, we'll miss out on many things could be done for our lovely francophonie.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Audet.

This concludes the public portion of our meeting. Before I suspend the meeting, I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here.

Should you have any more relevant information that the committee could use in its report on modernizing the act, please feel free to send it in writing to our clerk, who will forward it to all committee members.

Thank you, everyone.

That being said, the members attending this meeting via the Zoom application will need to disconnect from the public portion and reconnect for the portion in camera.

The meeting is suspended.

[Proceedings continue in camera]