Evidence of meeting #35 for Official Languages in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jean-Paul Perreault  President, Impératif français
Jean-François Parent  Manager, Research and Policy Analysis, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada
Alain Laberge  Executive Director, Division scolaire franco-manitobaine
Antoine Désilets  Executive Director, Société Santé en français

11:45 a.m.

President, Impératif français

Jean-Paul Perreault

At the rate Canada assimilates francophones in its anglophone provinces, it isn't surprising there's a shortage of French teachers. Unfortunately, there are also a lot of francophones in Quebec, although relatively fewer than elsewhere, whose main language has become English as a result of circumstances. Our mother tongue is being lost over time. We're experiencing the phenomena of assimilation that are occurring outside Quebec.

Now you want to take action on this. Good. Bravo! The woman who spoke earlier discussed immigration. If the British Columbian government wants francophone teachers and can't find any within its borders, it should recruit internationally. That would meet the objective of Mr. Parent, who wants an increase in francophone immigration. The money's there, and we're able to recruit them. Surely there are people incountries like Gabon, Morocco, Switzerland, Belgium and France who would be happy to teach French around the world under some arrangement. When I say "around the world", I of course include British Columbia, Mr. Vis.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Thank you very much.

Mr. Parent, do you want to add anything?

11:45 a.m.

Manager, Research and Policy Analysis, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada

Jean-François Parent

Absolutely.

There is growing interest in francophone minority education programs. Programs, such as immersion, that are mainly in French have been monitored for many years. That attests to an interest in understanding the Canadian situation and living in both official languages and also represents more opportunities and possibilities in the job market after the fact for students who learn French.

In the logic of economic nation-building, we have to be able to stimulate that interest in teaching French because that can then create professional development opportunities for those who benefit from it. This is an investment that Canadians want. Greater investment in immigration, particularly for teaching in minority communities, would add value for the government.

11:45 a.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Earlier you discussed the situation of federal airports and other federal institutions. In British Columbia, I recently tried to speak French with someone at the airport and at Service Canada, for example, and it's virtually impossible to obtain services in both official languages there.

How could we improve the level of French of workers in federal institutions?

11:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Mr. Vis. That's an excellent question.

We will now give the floor to Arielle Kayabaga for five minutes.

October 20th, 2022 / 11:45 a.m.

Liberal

Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would first like to thank our guests for taking the time to come and speak with us.

Mr. Parent, Bill C‑13 would require the Department of Immigration to establish an integrated policy on francophone immigration with indicators, markers and targets.

What impact do you think that will have on the demographic weight of the francophone population, the vitality of French and our country as a whole?

11:50 a.m.

Manager, Research and Policy Analysis, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada

Jean-François Parent

If we had a specific framework for measuring francophone immigration to Canada, it would help agencies and institutions that work in the sector more accurately measure changes in francophone immigration to Canada. That would help us conduct more thorough follow‑up on the subject.

I recently had a chance to speak with some researchers, including Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, who cooperated in the study that the Commissioner of Official Languages conducted on the 4.4% immigration target in the minority communities. That kind of data would help develop predictive models and provide better follow‑up to IRCC. While some data were available in 2003, 2008, 2019 and 2021, there are nevertheless discrepancies that must be corrected regarding access to immigration data and, more specifically, for official language minority communities.

I would be good to have an accountability framework, specific objectives and better metrics to assist in conducting more regular and constant follow‑up, ideally from year to year, and in determining the extent to which immigration thresholds can be reestablished for minority communities. The ideal would be to have a restorative target in the next few years.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON

Thank you for your answer.

Your organization's also seeking a separate francophone immigration program, which would not be mixed, as a solution to recruiting a qualified francophone workforce.

Could you tell us more about how that could be done? How do you view this?

11:50 a.m.

Manager, Research and Policy Analysis, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada

Jean-François Parent

Actually, this should be compared with the research project that Ms. Ashton previously noted on the specific labour needs of official language minority communities. Those needs overlap in some communities, and there are several thousands of unfilled jobs in various communities.

This kind of program would, first, help promote economic integration and directly meet existing needs on the ground. It wouldn't be easy to do because it would require a study to determine the needs that should be segmented by community and by municipality. However, it would have a direct impact on the labour force.

As a result, this kind of program could be custom-built to meet needs and, more particularly, to respond to the issues encountered across the country.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON

Do you agree that we can use many methods to come up with an approach to increasing francophone immigration outside Quebec. This is a good approach that would help reinforce minority communities so they can acquire that labour force. It would also help achieve this harmony in the francophonie across Canada.

11:50 a.m.

Manager, Research and Policy Analysis, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada

Jean-François Parent

Exactly. It would result in a targeted approach that would directly meet the communities' needs and would be defined by and for the communities themselvs. You have to visualize this whole "by" and "for" approach as part of the equation in order to establish a separate program that meets the requirements on the ground and also responds to the evolving representation of francophone communities in Canada.

We know from the latest statistics that French is declining proportionately in the communities. However, if we look at the absolute numbers, we see that the number of francophones is slightly increasing. So we should understand these facts and consider how this kind of program could meet the specific needs, for example, of far northern Ontario or western Canada. The needs of those regions differ from those of Acadie and southern Ontario.

11:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Ms. Kayabaga.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Beaulieu Bloc La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Perreault, going back to a question I asked you earlier, based on the first official language spoken criterion, the federal government wants to ensure that 33% of immigrants to Quebec have access to English-language services everywhere.

Isn't that tantamount to an effort to put Quebec francophones in the minority?

11:55 a.m.

President, Impératif français

Jean-Paul Perreault

There's a clash of visions here. The problem won't be solved until the federal government adopts a territorial approach to Quebec and stops applying to Quebec what it provides for francophones outside Quebec. Between the two of us, this is a symmetrical approach, but we know very well that the situation isn't symmetrical. Quebec is in a unique situation in Canada and North America.

If there's any genuine concern in Canada to see Quebec and, consequently, the North American francophonie develop, the federal government will have to abandon this approach whereby it does to Quebec what it's doing to Canada outside Quebec. No, it can't work. Fifty per cent of students at McGill University are non-anglophone. That represents the whole recruitment pool for the French language, and the federal government gives millions of dollars to organizations in Quebec to promote the advancement and spread of English. They need students in their CEGEPs and universities. Where will they find them? They guarantee themselves an additional clientele through francophone bilingualization and anglicization programs.

Between the two of us, this is a trick, a politician's manipulation to maintain this imbalance. It's a tough thing to say, but let's admit it: this vision is what's weakening the francophonie and the French language in Quebec. When the federal government gives money to organizations that promote English in Quebec, what do you think they're doing? They'd need it in Canada outside Quebec…

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Mr. Perreault…

11:55 a.m.

President, Impératif français

Jean-Paul Perreault

Take that money and send it to the organizations that promote French outside Quebec.

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I cheated and I'm not proud of it.

11:55 a.m.

Some voices

Oh oh!

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Ms. Ashton, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB

Thank you very much.

Mr. Parent, we know your organization helped immigrants before they arrived. You noted the service that you offered before the government decided, pursuant to a call for bids in 2019, not to retain your services. You also noted that you worked in francophone Africa, where the government systematically denied immigration applications

Based on your experience, would you please tell us more about the efforts the government is making in Africa to attract francophones who would like to come and settle in Canada?

What should the government do to stop impeding those efforts?

11:55 a.m.

Manager, Research and Policy Analysis, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité (RDÉE) Canada

Jean-François Parent

The answer to your second question is simple: expand pre-departure services and, in particular, include the economic aspect in the equation. If we want a more significant presence in francophone Africa and to attract more international francophones to Canada, we must reinforce pre-departure programs, in which the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, or RDÉE Canada, had been involved for a number of years before I joined the organization. That service was unfortunately taken away from us despite its tangible results on the ground. We hope it will be reinstated.

Since economic immigration plays an increasingly dominant role in our society, we need specific authorities and programs to meet the needs on the ground. With its 12 provincial and territorial agencies representing each of the minority communities, RDÉE Canada lends itself perfectly to this kind of initiative. Consequently, when the action plan for official languages is next renewed, or when the obligations associated with Bill C‑13 are reorganized, we would like to be able to play a greater international role in promoting francophone minority communities and increasing their appeal.

Noon

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB

I'd like to thank you and to tell you we were shocked to hear that your service was cut cut.

I'd also like to note that the labour shortage issue also affects people outside Quebec and that action must be taken.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

Before suspending, I would like to thank our guests for their impassioned comments on the subject of Bill C‑13. It was very interesting.

If you were unable to share any information for lack of time, please feel free to send it in writing to our clerk. She will then forward to all the members of the committee.

Thank you very much for being here.

We will now suspend.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

We will now resume.

The second panel of witnesses includes Alain Laberge, Executive Director of the Franco-Manitoban School Division, and Antoine Désilets, Executive Director of the Société Santé en français, both of whom we welcome by videoconference.

The witnesses will have five minutes each for their presentations, after which we will proceed to the period of questions. Since I am very strict about time, you have a maximum of five minutes.

I now give the floor to Alain Laberge.

12:05 p.m.

Alain Laberge Executive Director, Division scolaire franco-manitobaine

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

As the chair mentioned, my name is Alain Laberge, executive director of the Franco-Manitoban School Division, a school division representing nearly 6,000 students and located in the territories of treaties 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 and the lands of the birthplace of Louis Riel and the Red River Métis.

I would like to begin by thanking the House of Comments Standing Committee on Official Languages for allowing me to appear this morning. Modernizing the Official Languages Act is no mean feat, but it was necessary after all those years. I also appreciate being able to present our school division's views on the proposed amendments.

Before commenting on the various specific specific amendments proposed in Bill C‑13, I would like to share a few thoughts inspired by a reading of this document.

As we all know, education is a provincial jurisdiction, but let's stop for a brief moment to consider the reasons why we neither can nor must dissociate the bill from what we call the education world and, more specifically, minority community education.

Having been thoroughly involved in the field for more than 30 years, at times swimming against the current, I think it's important, even essential, to note that minority community education entails far more than the mere acquisition of knowledge. It's more a concept or a universe anchored deep within us and includes: the language, with its beautiful accents that come from many places; inclusion, which is who we are and how we come together; culture, which enables us to express ourselves creatively; identity-building, which constructs what we are; and many other things such as health, immigration, youth and the economy.

In fact, minority community education is our inheritance from the past and our wealth for the future, because are we not learners from the cradle to the grave?

It would be easy to discuss health, education and the economy under the individual umbrellas of their respective departments, but why not use Bill C‑13 to connect those various sectors so that our minority communities can develop more fully?

We welcome the wording that would replace the tenth paragraph of the preamble to the act, and more particularly the following two statements concerning what the federal government recognizes:

AND WHEREAS the Government of Canada recognizes the importance of providing opportunities for everyone in Canada to learn a second official language AND WHEREAS the Government of Canada recognizes the importance of supporting sectors that are essential to enhancing the vitality of English and French linguistic minority communities

As you can see, we refuse to view "education" as one single thing.

For this recommendation to be implemented, it will be important to ensure that major and continuing investments are made and that francization programs can be offered in both urban and rural areas.

Now allow me to present the major themes of our discussions of the latest amendments to the Official Languages Act. Note that I will emphasize certain changes but will also underscore other parts of the act that are decisive for the survival of our francophone schools.

We consider it necessary to emphasize the importance of the amendments proposed to the seventh and eighth paragraphs of the preamble to the act. After providing that the the Government of Canada is committed to "enhancing the vitality of the English and French linguistic minority communities in Canada and supporting and assisting their development," the new version adds the following:

taking into account their uniqueness, diversity and historical and cultural contributions to Canadian society…

This addition truly builds a bridge between our two solitudes, but also, I should say, a bridge among our various solitudes because let us not forget that the Canada of today and tomorrow must take into consideration our new compatriots and the fact that we will be blending our histories with those they will have brought with them in their suitcases.

We also consider it necessary to underscore the importance of the elements of the tenth paragraph of the preamble and of the amendments proposed thereto, particularly the following:

AND WHEREAS the Government of Canada recognizes the importance of providing opportunities for everyone in Canada to learn a second official language… AND WHEREAS the Government of Canada recognizes the importance of supporting sectors that are essential to enhancing the vitality of…French linguistic minority communities… …the Constitution of Canada provides every person with the right to use English or French in the debates of the Houses of the Legislature of Quebec and those of the Legislature of Manitoba…

I want to draw your attention to the inclusion of "those of the Legislature of Manitoba" because it was not a foregone conclusion.

I also welcome the new wording making clear that the purpose of the Official Languages Act is to

(b) support the development of English and French linguistic minority communities in order to protect them; (b.1) advance the equality of status and use of the English and French languages within Canadian society, taking into account that French is in a minority situation in Canada and North America…

The addition made to clarify that French is in a minority situation is crucial to an understanding of the everyday struggle in which the various minority school boards are engaged. Make no mistake: the vitality of our educational communities hangs by a thread and is supported by hundreds, indeed thousands, of educators and parents across the country. These people, like the Gaul Village, have chosen to live in French, knowing full well that nothing will come to them easily. Consider the allegory of the tiny flower that, despite desert conditions, flourishes and resists the winds and squalls.

We consider it necessary to emphasize the importance of the eleents set forth under the heading, "Définitions et interprétation", including the addition of three provisions on the interpretation of language rights.

We feel we have a duty to remember that thousands of francophones across the country have attended anglophone schools against their will and passed on their language in secret, concealing their books to avoid the ire of the majority. We have a duty to remember the rights holders who, despite their goodwill, lost the privilege of educating their children in French. In this regard, the three provisions concerning language rights, even unamended, must be interpreted as correcting the errors of the past. Can we stop these all too often political power struggles and let parents make the best choice when the time comes to take back their language and culture?

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal René Arseneault

Thank you, Mr. Laberge. You'll be able to discuss that at greater length in response to the questions put to you.

Now it's the turn of Antoine Désilets, from the Société Santé en français, to make his presentation.

Mr. Désilets, you have the floor for five minutes.