Official Languages Committee on Oct. 20th, 2022

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

You've answered my prayers after months of entreaties.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Dalton, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I am pleased to be back with the committee again.

Thanks to all the witnesses for being here today.

I'm a member from British Columbia, as is my colleague Mr. Vis. It's difficult for me not to emphasize the importance of French in our history in the west. The problem doesn't arise only in Quebec and New Brunswick, but also in the west.

On the other side of the Fraser River, the first capital was Fort Langley, where there were many coureurs de bois. It's part of who we are historically. We don't want to see the use of French decline in our province or in the West. It's very important to preserve it, and I thank you for your efforts to do just that.

French used to be spoken in the countryside, in churches and in the rural communities where there were many farmers. Today, life is much more urban. It's really a struggle to preserve the use of French.

Mr. Laberge, you represent the Division scolaire franco-manitobaine. You're aware of the huge importance of French in education, training and schools. Several aspects in these areas need to be improved.

Can you explain to us how the property disposal process works? Can you give us concrete examples?

What happens with surplus buildings?

Can you tell us about what works and what doesn't?

[Alain Laberge]

Thank you for the question.

I used to be a school principal in Chilliwack, Mr. Dalton. So I'm very familiar with the Fraser Valley.

You mentioned the situation in the countryside, and it's important to talk about that.

When a building is declared vacant or available, it should be offered first to francophones and indigenous people. However, the process is much more complex than might appear.

We went to Manitoba in search of land and buildings, but in vain. Property developers had often already purchased the buildings without anyone checking to see whether the indigenous or francophone communities had been consulted. We might not have acquired them in any event, but we are missing out on opportunities to acquire new buildings.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

That might in fact have helped to keep some French-language community centres or education centres going .

What percentage of federal funds earmarked for francophones in Manitoba actually get to them?

[Alain Laberge]

That's a good question.

We don't have access to all the data. Some of the money goes to administering the Bureau de l'éducation française, the BEF, which is part of the department of education. It handles French-language education and immersion.

One-fifth of our total budget, about $24 million or $25 million per year, comes from the federal government. The problem is finding out what the total amount is. How much money was allocated to immersion programs? How much money did the BEF receive? How much money did my organization receive? It's always rather difficult to get answers to these questions, because the process itself is complicated.

I'm not saying we can't get them, but we can't spend all day filling out Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act forms.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

That's also the case in British Columbia. We don't know exactly where the money earmarked for program improvements goes.

How could we do a better job of welcoming newcomers into francophone minority communities?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

There are 10 seconds left.

[Alain Laberge]

We need to welcome newcomers properly and recognize their credentials. This process should continue for four or five years, long enough for families to settle in properly. People who come from another province are asked if they have a licence…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Laberge. You'll be able to provide further details later.

It's over now to Mr. Iacono for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning.

Mr. Désilets, What would you like to see happen?

What is it absolutely essential to include in Bill C‑13?

[Antoine Désilets]

We believe that language clauses are essential. It's often hard to see where the money is going. Language clauses are needed if we want details about the outcomes. I mentioned two important areas earlier.

Having a central agency do the administration strikes us as essential. For example, there is a health program administered by a department other than Canadian Heritage, but most of the action plan and measures taken in the field are administered by Canadian Heritage. That leads to a misalignment in terms of indicators and outcomes. A central agency would be able to keep track of everything.

As I mentioned earlier, the act should speak out clearly on public health. That would give us the means to do something. The federal government finances an official languages program in the field of public health, but not for early childhood. There are no official languages programs for mental health care or care for seniors. Public health is a direct responsibility of the federal government.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

For francophone and Acadian minority communities, what are the main challenges in relation to Bill C‑13?

Is that more or less covered by what you just said?

Do you have any other comments for us?

[Antoine Désilets]

It's a complex question because health is largely a provincial jurisdiction. Each health system in Canada has its own structure and its own challenges.

In order to take action, you have to know what is needed. So in fact, my answer does resemble my answer to the previous question.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Okay.

In your opening address, you spoke about the need to collect missing data. Could you give us advice on this? What kinds of data need to be collected? For what purposes and contexts should they be collected?

[Antoine Désilets]

I'll be very brief. Two types of data should be collected.

Firstly, there should be data about systems capacity, to determine which service centres and which professionals are capable of providing service in French. The purpose is to develop signage and to make sure that such services are accessible.

Second, there should be data on official language minority community health needs. We know that there are certain specific needs owing to their minority status.

Effective solutions have been adopted in certain locations. For example, Prince Edward Island collects data on the language variable, such as what language people speak, which enables them to indicate on the health card which language people prefer to use for receiving medical services.

With data like that, Canada would have an overview of needs. There are all kinds of other ways of obtaining information about health system capacity.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Who should be handling this task?

[Antoine Désilets]

Collecting data on community needs is already part of the work we are doing directly with the provinces and territories. We have to prepare them and coach them. Of course, adding funding conditions and other revealing data, which could be collected on behalf of the Canadian Institute for Health Information, would provide an accurate overview of the situation and ensure that the programs instituted by the federal government actually meet the needs on the ground.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Désilets.

Mr. Laberge, you mentioned the need for funding to increase the number of francophone teachers. Should this be provided for in Bill C‑13? How could we facilitate this funding?

[Alain Laberge]

It's a complex question, because part of the answer has to do with immigration.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

That's why I'm asking it.

What we really want to know is which way to turn. Of course we don't want to encroach into other areas, because several provinces would tell us that we are overstepping our areas of jurisdiction.

[Alain Laberge]

Bill C‑13 could be a bridge. This question is related to immigration, on the one hand, and the capacity to welcome new students to universities on the other. Each province has a college that approves whether or not teachers can teach. We end up with lots of people from other countries whose credentials are not recognized.

We know, for example, that British Columbia has two superb universities, but that it's French-language offerings are minimal. In the west, with the exception of Campus Saint-Jean and the Université de Saint-Boniface, there are few programs in French. So where do we turn to find people? We look for them in Ottawa or Moncton. But when I go looking for people in Moncton, the president of Université de Moncton complains to me that I'm stealing her people. When they come here, some don't want to return to Moncton while others do.

There should therefore be a link between immigration and education.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I like the expression “trait d'union” that you used in French to mean a bridge or a link. I'm going to use it myself more often.

Do you have any comments to add Mr. Désilets?

[Antoine Désilets]

It's important to recall the power structure in health services. As I mentioned, for each $100 spent in Canada, one cent goes to official language minority communities. We should be proud of the advances we have made in health, but I think we still need support to reduce inequities.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?