Official Languages Committee on Feb. 10th, 2023

[Julie Boyer]

Thank you for giving me an opportunity to clarify my remarks.

Mr. Housefather's question asked whether this amendment didn't create a new offer of services in French that could have the effect of reducing the offer of services in English. I answered that he was correct.

Now, I will explain why.

The French version of the proposed amendment says "le gouverneur en conseil tient compte". In the English version of that, it says "the Governor in Council shall". In English, "shall" contains the idea of an obligation. If there is an obligation to take into account the minority situation of French, then how it was taken into account must be proven. To have an effect, the offer of services in French must be made predominant, and this would reduce the offer of services in English.

That is the potential effect that this amendment will have, because it has to be proved that the Governor in Council took into account the minority situation of French and the linguistic specificity of Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Boyer. That is interesting.

Mr. Godin, the floor is yours.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

In fact, you said that increasing services in French would disadvantage anglophones in Quebec.

[Julie Boyer]

No, it would not have the effect of increasing the offer of services in French. As my colleague explained, there is an automatic offer of services in French in Quebec. However, it has to be proved that this situation was taken into account. Consequently, it has to be proved that the minority situation of French in North America was given precedence, as compared to the minority situation of English in Quebec.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

That's possible, but it is not an effect that is automatically linked.

[Julie Boyer]

There are going to be effects.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

There might be repercussions for the anglophone minorities in Quebec, but, on the other hand, there might be repercussions for the francophone minorities outside Quebec.

[Julie Boyer]

No, because it talks about linguistic specificity in Quebec.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I'm extrapolating.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Beaulieu, the floor is yours.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Housefather often says there will be fewer rights for anglophones in Quebec. In fact, it is as if he wanted people in Quebec to be able to function entirely in English, but never have to speak French, like Michael Rousseau.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Beaulieu, I'm going to stop you. We are now talking about the amendment, and not about what you assume a colleague meant to say when he didn't say it.

So we are on amendment CPC-15.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Right. The purpose of this amendment is to make sure that French is predominant, to reflect the fact that it is the common language in Quebec, and to encourage the inclusion of newcomers as regards the French language.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Généreux, the floor is yours.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Chair, there are people on this committee whose positions set them a fair bit apart from the others, so I am going to speak very cautiously.

Mr. Beaulieu, not to name names, really wants to push things to the limit so that French will be predominant, which I understand. That is entirely to be expected. We are Quebeckers and we want French to continue to expand, not the opposite. Mr. Housefather, for his part, is defending his community.

The objective is not to try to make it so that either of the two languages is predominant, but to be aware of context. Having reiterated that, I will let Mr. Quell have the floor.

You wanted to say something earlier, Mr. Quell, and you didn't have an opportunity.

The objective is to take context into consideration. The words are extremely important here. Proving it is one thing, but that does not necessarily mean that...

Ms. Boyer, you are speaking in the conditional tense. If you tell me it is inevitable and there will be consequences, I will conclude that we have to be careful. However, if the Governor in Council has to make sure to take some particular context into account, as it says here, that is not in any way an obligation. The Governor in Council must ensure that any requests made were studied. I would remind you that it is the Government of Quebec that is asking for this factor to be included in the act. It is not really us who are doing it. We are not lawyers; we are trying to represent the specific requests made by Quebec as objectively as possible.

Now, I would like you to explain, Mr. Quell, and you can also do so, Ms. Boyer, if you feel it is necessary, why this amendment... I have great respect for Mr. Housefather and the work he does for the anglophone community in Quebec. I have no problem with that. My wife is anglophone, by the way. In spite of these considerations, our objective is not to diminish the importance of one group for the benefit of another. We need to see whether this would genuinely be the case. What you said to me earlier leads me to believe that this is your interpretation, since you are speaking in the conditional. If this were a certainty, I would agree with you, but until proven otherwise, I am going to take the position that you have not proved it.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Quell, the floor is yours.

[Carsten Quell]

Thank you for the question. I may ask Mr. Newman to add to my answer.

Because I am not a lawyer, I can't say what "shall" and "take into account" mean, but, in my humble opinion, it imposes an obligation on us, if we consider the regulations made under Part IV of the act, that might mean different treatment with respect to the offer of services for minority francophone communities and minority anglophone communities.

I referred to minority language schools located near a federal office. Is the radius smaller? I also referred to signage. Is there less signage to attract attention to a federal office? Are there hours when the service is offered in both languages, or maybe in only one language? At present, service is offered in both languages 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Equal quality of services is our principle, both for situations in Quebec and for situations outside Quebec. A bilingual federal office is bilingual at all times.

Under this provision, the question will have to be asked. We will have an obligation to distinguish between treatment designed to help anglophone communities in Quebec and treatment intended to support francophone communities outside Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I'm sorry, but because of some of our obligations on the Hill, we have to end today's meeting.

At the next meeting, we will resume our work exactly where we had got to. The next speakers will be Mr. Drouin and Mr. Beaulieu, in that order.

I would like to speak to the two vice-chairs and Ms. Ashton to see how we could make up the time we lost because of the technical difficulties in the last eight meetings.

The meeting is adjourned.