Official Languages Committee on Feb. 14th, 2022

[Angela Cassie]

Yes, there are targets across Canada because no one's hitting them. That's why we want to highlight the work being done by Accueil francophone. From 2010 to 2019, more than 4,800 immigrants arriving in Manitoba were able to communicate in French. Despite our efforts, and although we have an initiative to attract them, we took in only 301 immigrants and 109 refugees in 2020‑2021.

So we have the capacity and the will to take them in, but approvals are lagging. We really need to step up the process and set even bolder targets.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

I have a question for Mr. Lacroix.

When I was chair of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, we looked into the cancellation of the midwifery program at Laurentian University in northern Ontario. All the francophones and indigenous people who speak French here in Ontario now have no access to a midwifery program. There's one in Quebec, but you have to live in Quebec to have access to it.

Would it be possible to get funding from the federal government to expand Quebec's programs so other Canadian francophones could use them?

[Frédéric Lacroix]

Postsecondary programs for francophones outside Quebec are seriously underfunded in all Canadian provinces. Current investment represents only a fraction of the money that should be invested in them. The situation is reversed in Quebec, where English-language universities and cégeps receive two or three times more funding based on the anglophone community's demographic weight.

Funding for postsecondary educational institutions is absolutely critical for the vitality of francophones outside Quebec. Since that sector is largely controlled by the provinces, they should increase funding for it.

The Quebec government's Bill 96, which is currently under consideration, includes a clause providing that francophones outside Quebec who do not have French-language programs available to them may enjoy Quebec education rights to come and study in French in Quebec. That clause will probably be adopted. That's good news, but it's also bad news in the sense that those francophones will be absorbed by Quebec and may stay there. So it's a double-edged sword.

The ideal would be to provide much more generous funding to French-language universities and colleges. We need French-language universities and colleges, not bilingual institutions.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

My final question is for Mr. Blackburn.

Mr. Blackburn, you discussed competition and the possibility of doing business with other francophone countries.

Please give us a few examples.

[Karl Blackburn]

As I mentioned, I'm very proud to have signed that agreement to promote the economic francophonie around the world.

What we anticipate for Quebec is that it will be a North American gateway for businesses wanting to come and do business in French in Canada or Quebec. We also want Quebec to be a springboard for businesses here to expand through the global francophonie should they so wish. That's extremely important for us. When we look at the potential this represents in terms of population and economic creation…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Blackburn. I apologize for interrupting. I tried to do it as politely as possible.

Before we go any further, I would like to welcome Mr. Hamel, Mr. Blackburn's colleague, as well as Mr. Boucher. Both have joined us through the magic of the Internet.

So welcome, gentlemen.

Our colleague Patricia Lattanzio will be the next questioner.

Ms. Lattanzio, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for anyone who can answer it.

We discussed the immigration issue. What more can we do to attract people to come here and enhance the quality of French in this country?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Ms. Lattanzio, is your question for Mr. Lacroix, Mr. Blackburn, or Ms. Cassie?

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Let's start with Mr. Blackburn.

[Karl Blackburn]

Thank you very much for your question.

Before answering it, allow me to introduce my colleague, who has just joined us. Denis Hamel is vice-president for politics and labour. He has advanced expertise in the field.

The answer that I can give you off the top, Ms. Lattanzio, is that we have to ensure that the French language can attract companies from around the world to come and do business in French in Quebec and Canada. It's possible to do economic development in French.

From a demographic standpoint, the francophone population will be growing in the coming years. We view that as an economic development opportunity. That's why we don't want our borders used as ramparts to repel the invader. Instead we want them to be used as a springboard to expand the economic francophonie around the world.

Now I'll ask my colleague Denis Hamel to clarify a few points in answer to your question.

[Denis Hamel, Vice President of Workforce Development Policies, Quebec Council of Employers]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair.

You raised two important points, Ms. Lattanzio.

You began by talking about language quality. We believe that this aspect is often neglected. It's true that it's extremely important to keep the French language strong, by which I mean the vitality of French in Canada, but we strive to place a heavy emphasis on the quality of the language. From this standpoint, immigration helps us enormously. The bigger the pool of francophones and francophiles in Canada, the more the language will prosper.

The Canadian government needs to be aware of one thing with respect to the immigration targets it shares with Quebec, and that is that francophone immigration needs to be a priority not only in Quebec, but also outside Quebec. If we want to maintain the vitality of francophone and Acadian communities, it's extremely important for francophone immigration not to be concentrated only in Quebec.

As Mr. Blackburn explained, our objective is to maximize francophone economic space in Canada. That's really the way that we will be able to succeed in transmitting this expertise.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

How much speaking time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have just under three minutes.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I will continue in the same vein, that is to say with the immigration issue.

We heard several witnesses last week, one of whom was a demographer who told us that the decline in French in Quebec was attributable to the lower fertility rate. Immigration can be one way of countering this factor.

Apart from immigration, are there other options to envisage to counteract the decline of French in Quebec?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

For whom is your question, Ms. Lattanzio?

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

It's for Mr. Blackburn once again.

[Karl Blackburn]

Thank you very much for the excellent question.

The best way to get there is to find a way of enhancing our French.

Over the past few months, we have had the opportunity, as did the Literacy Foundation here in Quebec, to identify an extremely disquieting fact about our population, by which I mean the very low level of literacy and numeracy. Unfortunately, one out of every two persons in the 15‑ to 64‑year age group in Quebec has literacy and numeracy shortcomings.

We are therefore suggesting that tools be acquired to enable people to learn French or improve their French every day in our organizations and businesses. Companies that take part in this effort and that are willing to buy into the concept should receive tax initiatives to do so, and employees should be given opportunities in these organizations to improve their language, thus contributing to enhancing the quality of French. That would enable us to be able to raise the level of literacy and numeracy, and…

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Blackburn.

I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I'd like to have enough time to ask my next question.

You would no doubt agree that anglophones and allophones in Quebec have made extraordinary efforts over the past few years by introducing French immersion programs and bilingual schools.

Don't you feel that these efforts, which are also being made by other language minorities, might help to counteract the decline of French in Quebec?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

There are 10 seconds left.

[Denis Hamel]

Yes, I believe so. Moreover the message that ought to be sent out to the communities…

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Hamel.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Mr. Chair, would it be possible for me to have Mr. Hamel's answer in writing?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes. I'll remind him at the end of the meeting, Ms. Lattanzio.

The next speaker is the Vice-Chair of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Lacroix, you ended your presentation by saying that for federal government grants to universities there ought to be different criteria based on language of instruction.

Can you tell us more about this?

[Frédéric Lacroix]

Currently, grant programs are based on criteria for excellence, meaning that they are based on [Editor's Note: Technical difficulty]. There's a historical effect there, to the effect that those who were good in the past are good today. The disproportion, in my view, increases over time.

I believe that there ought to be a criterion based on language of instruction in allocating grants, because 40% of federal grants go to anglophone universities, whereas anglophones represent only 8.1% of the population. It's unfair.

If the allocation criterion was based on language of instruction, then 90% of the grants would be to francophone institutions and 10% to anglophone institutions, which would be equitable.