Official Languages Committee on Sept. 25th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 66 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3) and the motion adopted by the committee on April 21, 2023, the committee is meeting to continue its study on increased francophone immigration to Canada.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 15, 2023. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

To keep the meeting running smoothly, I would like to outline a few rules to follow for witnesses and members. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are participating by video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

For interpretation for those participating via Zoom, you have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either the floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use your earpiece and select the desired language channel.

Although the room is equipped with a sound system that performs well, it is possible that audio feedback will occur, which can be extremely harmful to interpreters and cause serious hearing injuries. The most common cause for audio feedback is an earpiece being too close to a microphone. So we ask all participants to be very careful when using their earpieces, especially when their microphone or that of their neighbour is on. In order to prevent incidents and to protect the interpreters' hearing health, I invite participants to ensure that they are speaking properly into the microphone assigned to them, as well as to avoid manipulating their earpiece and to put it on the table, away from the microphone, when it is not being used.

I remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain a consolidated order of speaking, and we appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

In accordance with our routine motion regarding sound tests, I wish to inform the committee that all witnesses have completed the required sound tests before the meeting. That said, I would like to let you know that a witness who was supposed to be here today is not yet here. We don't know if it was an oversight on their part. So we may have to do a sound test along the way.

Welcome, everyone, and welcome to the witnesses.

I invite Mariève Forest—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I would just like a clarification. Normally, we get briefing notes from the Library of Parliament ahead of time, but for this meeting, we only received them this morning at 10 a.m., and the meeting began at 11 a.m.

Does that late submission stem from a computer problem? Is it common? Is this a new practice? Was this document simply submitted only today for uncontrollable reasons?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

It was indeed for uncontrollable reasons that the document was submitted only this morning at around 10 a.m., if I remember correctly.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

So this will not be common practice for future meetings.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

No. However, at the end of this meeting, I would like to take a quick minute to talk to you about the two upcoming meetings. I'll talk to you about that after we hear from all the witnesses.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

So now we have Ms.—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Chair, will it be two speakers per hour or everyone at the same time?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We have a big two-hour block, so we'll be able to “mix” our questions based on our areas of interest.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In that case, we will start over the order of questions during the second hour of the meeting. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes, exactly. This is the format that committees have already agreed to.

I would now like to welcome Mariève Forest, president and senior researcher at Sociopol, who is here in person. From the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick, a beautiful province, we have Cyrille Simard, vice-president, development. He is from my region and is participating in the meeting via Zoom. Also joining us in person are two representatives of the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones: Valérie Morand, executive director, and Tanya Saumure, second vice-president. The person missing is Luisa Veronis, associate professor at the University of Ottawa. We hope to see her soon and, if she comes, we will do a sound test on the spot.

As usual, we will let the witnesses make a brief presentation of up to five minutes. I am very strict about speaking time. If you don't have time to finish your presentation, that's fine. You will have the opportunity to do so as we ask you questions. I apologize in advance if I interrupt you a little before the end of your five minutes to tell you that you have 30 seconds left.

With that said, we'll begin with Ms. Forest for five minutes.

[Mariève Forest, President and Senior Researcher at Sociopol, As an Individual]

Good morning.

I want to thank the committee for taking the time to better understand the dynamics of increased francophone immigration.

As mentioned, I am the president of Sociopol and a senior researcher. We do a lot of work on issues related to francophone immigration.

In recent years, my colleague Guillaume Deschênes‑Thériault, other artisans, including Luisa Veronis, who is not here, and I have conducted more than a dozen studies on francophone immigration. As you can imagine, I could talk to you about this for hours, so feel free to ask us questions.

Today, I have chosen to focus my remarks on three findings that enable me to emphasize the somewhat more problematic dynamics that have been noted in recent years.

I would like to begin by emphasizing the importance of supporting the entire integration pathway for francophone temporary residents. I would remind you that the selection of economic permanent residents from former temporary foreign workers, known as the “two-step migration” process, has experienced a significant increase in Canada since the early 2000s.

Following this finding and at the request of the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, or IRCC, we conducted three studies—in 2022, I believe—aimed at better understanding the transition pathways to permanent residence for francophone skilled temporary foreign workers who had chosen to settle in the west, in Ontario or in the Atlantic provinces.

According to IRCC data, between 2012 and 2021, just over 10,000 francophones with skilled temporary foreign worker status settled in one of the regions studied. That accounts for between 2.3% and 3.3% of all skilled temporary foreign workers who were welcomed. I am mentioning these temporary residents because we are talking about thousands of francophones who, over the years, have obtained their permanent resident status and who hear about francophone communities often one, two or three years after they arrive.

To this day, the federal government does not fund settlement services for temporary residents who speak French. There is also no process for welcoming these people. Considering the increase in the proportion of temporary residents who transition to permanent residence and the difficult language retention of French in a minority context, we cannot afford to come into contact with these people several months or years after their arrival in Canada. Therefore, it seems important to us to create a settlement pathway specifically for francophone temporary residents, so that these people understand, even before they set foot in Canada, that francophone institutions are ready to welcome them and integrate them. This is a unique situation. It may not be necessary for anglophones, but it is important for francophones.

I would now like to talk about the importance of deploying a full suite of settlement services and ensuring that they are structurally managed. Year after year, our studies show that the services offered are more comprehensive on the anglophone side. They are deployed in more settings, and the staff of those organizations have access to more forums for consultation and professional development. On the other hand, our studies remind us of the importance of providing a welcome that preserves the linguistic security of immigrants and makes them want to show their roots in French in Canada. This is essential for the well-being of the people we welcome, but also for the vitality of francophone communities.

Through our work with the Comité consultatif national en établissement francophone, a body established by IRCC, we recently conducted a broad consultation with settlement stakeholders in francophone communities, involving more than 100 people. These consultations and the analysis of the services offered clearly show the absence of the principle of substantive equality between the settlement of francophones and that of anglophones. For example, while Canada is recognized as a model for resettling refugees, the ability of francophone communities to provide resettlement assistance in French remains very limited today compared to what is provided in English. The work of this committee has also largely shown the need for the francophone sector to receive support to develop its capacities, to improve its coordination and to ensure the visibility of francophone communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left, Ms. Forest.

[Mariève Forest]

Okay.

In closing, I would like to talk about the position that could be put forward in the context of immigrant settlement.

We did an evaluation of the welcoming francophone communities initiative, through which 14 francophone communities received funding. The approach relies on a localized and inclusive consideration of immigrants, rather than simply putting the burden on them and their ability to integrate into the community.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Forest.

[Mariève Forest]

That kind of perspective is more interesting for francophone communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much. I'm sure you'll have a chance to complete your remarks through questions.

Cyrille Simard, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Cyrille Simard, Vice-President, Development, Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick]

Mr. Chair, honourable members of the committee, thank you for inviting us to share with you the experience of the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick, or CCNB, regarding immigration and increased francophone immigration to Canada in particular. As a francophone training institution located outside Quebec, we are in a good position to enlighten the committee on this issue.

I am speaking today following our November 2022 appearance before the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages on the issue of francophone minority immigration. We also had the honour of testifying before Christiane Fox, deputy minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or IRCC, in connection with the initiative to attract and integrate more francophone immigrants to the country.

Like other institutions of higher learning, the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick is a major pillar in attracting and retaining immigrants in francophone minority communities. As a professional and technical training institution, the CCNB works closely with local economic stakeholders to ensure that its training is aligned with labour market needs and requirements.

Our graduates, after having been with us for a few years, are not only ready to enter the labour market, but have also developed deep ties within our communities. However, while our international students bring real added value, their temporary resident status excludes them from some federally funded settlement services that are reserved for permanent residents. Therefore, a change is essential in that regard to maximize our contribution to their integration and retention.

On the other hand, we believe that introducing a program with simplified access to permanent residence for international graduates outside Quebec would greatly facilitate the achievement of our francophone immigration objectives. Despite the diversity of existing programs, many of these graduates unfortunately face administrative mazes and extensive delays in their efforts to become permanent residents.

In addition, a closer relationship with IRCC is required to manage the increase in immigration with efficiency and integrity. Such cooperation would allow for the exchange of information on study permit approval rates, the monitoring of fraud and the monitoring of our students' permit applications.

We are constantly looking for ways to improve the welcoming and integration of international students. However, we are concerned about the lack of predictability around study permits, given that only 36% of students who apply for them in New Brunswick obtain them. This creates problems such as course overload and increased challenges in terms of access to housing or language preparation. Other options being considered include extending post-graduation work permits for university students to four years and systematically linking work permits to study permits.

The CCNB has seen a significant increase in international enrolment in recent years. To put this in perspective, from 200 in 2016, enrolments surpassed 1,100 this fall, or nearly 48% of our total number of students. This is a positive development, especially when we know that, in 2022, more than 90% of these students applied for a post-graduation work permit and that 90% of them were hired. Many of the students we welcome are from west Africa or central Africa.

To illustrate a concrete situation that we are facing, let's look at the building trades. The country as a whole is facing a housing crisis, and New Brunswick is no exception. However, our growth potential is limited by two factors. First, in many countries, the building trades are passed down from generation to generation or mentor to apprentice without the need for post-secondary education. Second, in a number of regions, these trades are often poorly paid, leading families to perceive a limited future for young people who would like to enter these professions.

Through our successful collaborations with our provincial government partners, local organizations and embassies, our understanding of these issues has grown. As a result, we have seen an increase in enrolment in these programs in particular, but much remains to be done to meet the actual demand.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Cyrille Simard]

The leap in international enrolment at the CCNB is excellent news, but it also generates major challenges that require a robust and well-structured strategy and, therefore, increased resources, as previously mentioned.

So I remain at your disposal to answer any questions that may help you in your thinking on this subject. If I don't have the answer to a question, I will undertake to provide it to you as soon as possible. Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

Go ahead, Ms. Morand. You have five minutes.

[Valérie Morand, Executive Director, Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones]

Actually, it will be our 2nd vice-president, Mrs. Saumure, who will give the opening remarks.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Go ahead, Mrs. Saumure.