Official Languages Committee on Sept. 25th, 2023

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I’ll get straight to the point, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Morand, you mentioned that the current government promised you back in March, when it tabled the Action Plan for Official Languages, that there would be a smooth flow of funding. However, I gathered from your answer is that this is not currently the case.

What are the day-to-day consequences? Is French-speaking immigration directly affected by the fact that the government hasn’t kept its promise?

[Valérie Morand]

I think that Francophone immigration is affected by default, since the students are already attending our schools. I believe that the government’s true intention was laudable, wanting to ensure that there would be no interruption of services. However, that’s not what we’re seeing on a day-to-day basis.

Of course, we can’t blame the provinces and territories for waiting until the money is in their coffers before renewing funding. It’s that hiatus, that transition period, that’s particularly difficult.

Administrators faced a heartbreaking decision: they had to choose between letting some of their staff go in order to balance the budget, or continuing to employ these people. In the end, they decided to keep the staff, even if it meant running a deficit. It was a leap of faith; the thinking was that the money would follow, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Morand.

Mr. Drouin, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Morand, I’ll continue in the same vein. The process is repeated every five years, is that right? What do school boards do after five years, ten years or fifteen years? Do they plan accordingly?

The federal government is driven by its own rules, Treasury Board rules. I’m just trying to understand: is planning done every five years, knowing that there will be an interruption in funding or a transition period?

[Valérie Morand]

Thank you for the question.

It should be noted that core funding is provided by provinces and territories. That remains the same; there are no changes in that regard.

What we’re talking about are additional costs associated with educating children, which are funded by the federal government. That money is fundamental to paying for the music teacher, early childhood spaces and school activities that require cultural animators, for example. Those are the employees affected by delayed payment. In the context of the last Action Plan for Official Languages, an increase of $60 million was granted at the eleventh hour. That amount completely changed the equation when the time came to keep all these people on the job, who allow students to experience their Francophony at school.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you so much.

I just wanted to get off on the right foot and now I’ll ask my own questions.

First, I too would like to wish the people in my community and all Franco-Ontarians a Happy Franco-Ontarian Day.

Madame Morand, earlier you mentioned professional bodies. As we know, there’s a shortage of teachers across Canada. In Quebec, I believe we’re talking about 8,000 teachers. Are the professional bodies aware of this? Are they open to creating pilot projects and changing the way they do things?

[Valérie Morand]

I believe there’s a growing awareness, yes. Could that translate into higher dividends? It certainly does.

A few years ago, we tried to establish a dialogue with professional bodies, which differ from province to province. It’s vitally important for qualified teachers to know which province they’re moving to, because they’ll have to start all over again if they change provinces. Ontario has a pilot project to further foster the professional recognition of qualified French-speaking teachers from abroad. So some progress is being made. Should there be more initiatives like this? The answer is yes, absolutely.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Ms. Morand.

Ms. Forest, you briefly touched on the Welcoming Francophone Communities initiative. If memory serves, there are fourteen of them, including Hawkesbury, which I'm sure you're familiar with. Incidentally, that's where I was born and raised.

In your opinion, is this a model that works or should it be improved?

[Mariève Forest]

In this case, it's a report that's still in the writing stage, so I only have the preliminary data.

Personally, I was assigned to the community of Yellowknife, where I had the opportunity to visit. I've seen great progress there, and it's not just due to the Welcoming Francophone Communities initiative. A lot has happened in terms of immigration, there's been a before and an after. However, some communities have been less successful than others.

In Yellowknife and smaller communities like yours, we found that people were finally being welcomed in a more humane way and participating in socializing activities. In fact, we weren't just offering them a service, like helping them write their resumes, and people were grateful. It also generated engagement. When things are done right, it makes organizations that don't have a specific mandate for settlement services more sensitive to appointing immigrants to their board of directors, for example. It also raises community awareness.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

In your opinion, should the Department of Citizenship and Immigration give prospective immigrants the choice to share their personal information with third parties? We often hear that there are local organizations, but that people don't know about them. When they land in Montreal or Toronto, they don't really know which organizations offer services in French and which don't.

In your opinion, how could we balance privacy with sharing information with third parties, if people have given their consent? We need to be able to serve these people well once they've settled in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's an excellent question, Mr. Drouin, but you'll have to wait five minutes for the answer.

Mr. Dalton, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Simard, you spoke briefly about the number of people from Africa who enrol in programs and want to receive their education here. You mentioned that about 36% of applications are accepted. One witness mentioned to us that several students have come to Canada when their applications have not been accepted, which is of great concern to us.

Is the situation similar at New Brunswick Community College? What can we do to ensure that these students remain in the programs and have access to support services?

[Cyrille Simard]

Unfortunately, there was a small network interruption and I didn't hear your question very well.

However, I'd like to clarify something. When I mentioned the 36%, it referred to the percentage of students who apply to our programs and are successful in obtaining a study permit. For example, if 1,000 students have applied, 360 will get a study permit.

Of course, there are many ways in which we could be more successful. As I said in my opening remarks, we need to ensure that the work permit is associated with the study permit, so that the person doesn't have to go through a double pathway to obtain a post-graduation work permit. In our view, this is an important aspect. These people also need to have access to settlement services, in the same way as immigrants who obtain permanent resident status.

The length of the work permit after graduation is important to us. A college has one- or two-year programs, essentially. The post-graduation work permit is always granted based on the length of study. Yet we believe that, in the college sector in particular and in specific sectors, it would be nice if there were post-graduation programs as long as those for university students.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Simard.

My next question is for the representatives of the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones.

You reminded us that in 2009, grants were around $5,000, but they've since been cut in half. If you take inflation into account, the amount is even less. In 2009, I was a teacher. Back then, the amount allocated for each student was around $8,000, which was a very big increase.

What happened? Can you tell us about these grants and the impact of their decrease?

[Valérie Morand]

When we looked at the figures, we realized that there had been an erosion in the amounts paid out, due to the increase in school enrolments. Since 2009, we've seen a steady growth in the number of enrolments in our schools. So we have more students in our schools and the cost of living has increased, but the amounts have remained the same since 2009.

To answer your question about the effect of the grants, I would say that these sums complement what the provinces and territories offer to enhance students' educational and pedagogical experience, so that they can live their francophonie to the full. I was talking about cultural animators, leadership camps and early childhood services, for example. There's even a project here in Ottawa called Café communauté, where we offer parents of students from immigrant backgrounds the chance to meet on themes of their choosing. This project is funded in part by the federal government.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but we have very little time.

What percentage of francophile or francophone immigrants enrol their children in francophone school board programs? Is it a large number? Is it a majority or a small minority?

[Valérie Morand]

Through the Statistics Canada census, we learned that we have roughly two-thirds of the children of rightful claimants in our schools. So there's a third that we're missing out on, and there are nearly 600,000 students who are eligible.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Kayabaga, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We'll do that afterwards. Is it about the allocation of speaking time?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Earlier, I asked a question. If we had divided this into two one-hour blocks, as usual, at the end of the first hour, we would be back to the first round.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

We'll finish this round, Mr. Beaulieu, and we'll come back to it later, I promise. I'm going to give the floor to Ms. Kayabaga, and when we start the next round, I'll make sure we listen to that.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

It's six minutes for me and six minutes for the NDP.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

It's five minutes. Thank you.

Ms. Kayabaga, you have the floor.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I welcome all the witnesses, who have been here for some time now.

I'd like to come back to the question my colleague Francis Drouin asked earlier. I'd like it to be answered, because it is indeed relevant. He talked about a system where people would register to access services. We also need some information about people who arrive in the country, such as who they are, when they arrived, how they arrived, why they came here and where they are, so that we can easily communicate with them. What do you think?