Official Languages Committee on Sept. 25th, 2023

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Last year, our threshold for francophone immigration was 4.4%. Do you believe we can reach that threshold this year?

[Mariève Forest]

There's been an increase. We had that target for a long time, and we finally reached it because various programs were put in place. All indications are that we can reach that percentage again this year, because we haven't stopped any of the efforts we made in previous years. We've really achieved a higher percentage because measures were taken to target francophone immigrants. Therefore, if new measures are introduced, we could reach an even higher percentage.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

In your opinion, what would the ideal threshold be for francophone immigration to Canada to ensure that francophone communities maintain their demographic weight?

[Mariève Forest]

I didn't bring it up this morning, but Guillaume Deschênes‑Thériault and I did a study for the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada where we presented demographic projections. According to our assessment, if we significantly increase francophone immigration by 10%, 15% or 20%, for example, the demographic weight of francophone communities will increase by 2036.

At the moment, our studies show that a target of 4.4% is not enough to maintain the demographic weight of francophones. If we want to keep their demographic weight where it was in 2021, we need to increase francophone immigration. If we want to restore the 1971 demographic weight, which is specified in the act, we'll have to work much harder.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

What challenges do we need to overcome in order to grow the country's francophone communities?

[Mariève Forest]

The two studies we did include recommendations. We want the federal and provincial governments to bring in additional measures to spur recruitment of immigrants.

Of course, we must also consider the whole journey to integration. For example, we need immigration programs specifically targeting francophones. Recruitment quotas could also be required in certain programs. We need a number of measures put in place. There's no secret recipe that will enable us to recruit enough immigrants overnight.

We feel that how we treat temporary residents is also extremely important. We need to adopt positive measures for temporary francophone residents. They are already in Canada. The Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick representative talked about international students earlier. It would be quite easy to target the measures. Since these individuals are highly motivated to stay in Canada, we should give them a clearer path to permanent residency.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You talked about targeting recruitment. What should we be intensifying, targeting or improving?

[Mariève Forest]

When we conducted our study, there was only one office processing applications from the many African countries with a francophone tradition, and it was located in Dakar. I haven't checked to see if things have changed since then. Why not open more offices? There are many in countries where anglophones are recruited. That would be pretty easy to do.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I have some examples of countries—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Mr. Iacono, unfortunately your time is up. You can come back to that later.

Next, we go to the Bloc Québécois.

Mr. Beaulieu, second vice-chair of the committee, you have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Happy Franco‑Ontarian Day to our friends in Ontario.

I will start with the representatives of the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones. In Ontario, 44% of students in French-language schools are immigrants. Recently, our request was granted to have the total number of rights holders calculated, because a substantial proportion of them didn't have access to French-language schools. It varies from region to region; some places have virtually no French-language schools.

With regard to francophone immigration outside Quebec, don't you feel it's important to target regions that have French-language schools?

[Valérie Morand]

Yes. I'll give you an example on the ground that I think speaks for itself: Our smallest school board is in Nunavut, and it consists of a single school. If you look at the student profile, there's an extremely large black population. Why is that? The first immigrant family from a village in Cameroon came to town. It went well for them, word got out and several families from the same village ended up settling in Iqaluit. We're seeing more or less the same thing in schools. When integration goes well, when families are welcomed and able to settle in, it snowballs.

However, there's one thing I'd like to add. It's great that we have more ambitious francophone immigration targets, but once we welcome these families, we need to make sure they continue to live as francophones, because they will be in a predominantly anglophone environment, which is why it's so important that we have inclusive and welcoming communities. We feel that's fundamental, both for the organizations that help them and the schools that integrate students and, by force of circumstance, their parents and families.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Basically, when it comes to rights holder and francophone newcomer access to French-language schools, do you think things will get much better in the coming years in terms of them being widely accessible?

In addition, to complete my other question, if newcomers arrive in a region where there is no French-language school nearby, how will they be properly integrated?

[Valérie Morand]

It's an ongoing challenge.

We talked about the 73 new schools built and opened since 2016. Building new infrastructure is our school system's main priority. I must admit that our system is relatively new, since we were only able to start building our network across Canada in the mid‑eighties. So, yes, we'd certainly like have more French-language schools and do a better job promoting the French-language school network.

Earlier, Ms. Forest talked about Destination Canada. I had the opportunity to take part in its international fair a number of times. The people who went there were almost at the end of their immigration process in Canada, and we would walk away with at least 200 new enrolments in our schools. The Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones booth was one of the busiest. Parents don't know that they can have their children continue their education in French. They mistakenly believe that they have to give up education in French for their children when they come to Canada and live in a minority setting, and that's not true. We offer a range of services, including enrolling their children in a French-language school.

Unfortunately, in some provinces and territories—one example was mentioned—it's still hard to exercise the right to manage school admissions. Francophone and francophile families sometimes face resistance when they want to enrol their children in French-language schools. However, I'd say that it's happening less and less. That said, we've gone to the Supreme Court of Canada again to address situations where there's a little more resistance.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

So if new francophone immigrants are shown where they can go to French-language school as soon as they get here, that could also help steer them.

[Valérie Morand]

Yes, absolutely. We were just talking about promotion. Our website is another national and international window and it shows what we have to offer in terms of education in French in Canada.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Okay.

Ms. Forest, I know we're going to run out of time, but my next question is for you.

Sociopol did a study on postsecondary education in the minority language. You talked about the English-language postsecondary education system being overfunded in Quebec and the French-language postsecondary education system being underfunded outside Quebec. Can you tell us a little more about that and the impact it's having?

[Mariève Forest]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Beaulieu.

The study was commissioned by the Department of Canadian Heritage, and yes, there is quite a significant funding gap between the English-language college and university network in Quebec and French-language postsecondary institutions outside Quebec.

Unfortunately, I don't have the numbers with me, but that study showed a huge gap between the percentage of francophones in a given province and the percentage of those who have access to postsecondary education in French in that province, which was generally half as high. The percentage is even lower out West, where the French-language campuses are small.

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Ms. Forest.

I'd like to remind witnesses that they should always feel free to send any additional information to the clerk. The clerk will forward the information to all committee members. That way, they can send us the figures or statistics they refer to.

We will now go to the last question for our first round of questions. Niki Ashton, for the NDP, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome all the witnesses today.

As we know, the purpose of our study is to inform us on the situation and challenges the country is facing. In addition, we're wondering what recommendations we could make to the federal government to find solutions. It's very important.

I spoke at length about the challenges related to education in French and French immersion. I come from western Canada, where we face a major labour shortage in French-language education and immersion. We're also seeing extremely high demand from families. However, our day care centres, primary schools and high schools can't meet that demand due to the labour shortage.

To the representatives of the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones, what are the main challenges? What would you recommend the federal government do to resolve the labour shortage? What suggestions do you have for immigration?

[Tanya Saumure]

Thank you, Ms. Ashton.

We'd like the settlement workers in schools—SWIS—initiative to be expanded. It's a great initiative, but it's out of touch with current realities in our school boards. I remind you that francophone immigration ensures the vitality of francophone minority communities.

[Valérie Morand]

Ms. Ashton, if I may, I'd like to add something.

When we talk about a shortage of school staff, even in early childhood centres, you're absolutely right: We're truly experiencing that to a great extent right now. We need to speed up the process for recognizing teacher and early childhood worker qualifications from abroad. Right now, people are struggling through the process. We therefore need to work more closely with the professional associations to find a more flexible mechanism that helps these skilled workers find their place in Canada.

We talked about Destination Canada. When I was there, I wore two hats. I was there to raise awareness of what we had to offer in terms of education in French as a first language in a minority setting. Our website had an interactive map. I was also there to collect resumés from teachers and staff who wanted to come work for our school boards. On our website, we had a section with all the job offers in the various school boards, including information on salary and the hiring process, as well as mock interviews.

However, there's only so much the federation can do. The professional associations have their role to play as well. In my opinion, that's where we need to work to facilitate recognition of these qualified individuals' credentials.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

In terms of capacity and coordination, do you think the federal government has a direct role to play in getting that done with the professional associations?

[Tanya Saumure]

I'll say it again: Our federation supports higher francophone immigration targets to increase the demographic weight of francophone communities outside Quebec and to address the dire need for staff members in French-language schools.

[Valérie Morand]

I would add that we need to ensure that Canadian embassies, high commissions and consular services abroad are aware of the French-language school network, both for staff recruitment and student enrolment. People come to Canada thinking there's only one system, and yet we have 29 employers of choice. We've been criticized for this for 20 years. So it can certainly be better coordinated.

We must also remember that it's important to provide services at every stage of the integration process, to ensure we have inclusive and welcoming communities, promote staff and student onboarding and seek out these qualified people who arrive in the country and very often still don't know about this employer of choice. In francophone minority communities, schools remain the number one employer of francophones. They aren't the only one, but often they are an employer of choice.