Official Languages Committee on Dec. 11th, 2023

[Nicholas Salter]

Beyond using the census as a data point, we do a lot of focus groups, conferences and events. We hold a lot of events across the country, in terms of trying to gather information. We've done a survey. The top thing identified for us is French-language barriers. That's what English speakers tell us themselves, in terms of their challenges in the labour market. That's why we've spent a lot of our organizational effort trying to build a well-functioning French-language training system.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Obviously, you—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

That's all the time we have.

Thank you, Mr. Salter.

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

The next questions will come from Marc Serré, for five minutes as well.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to the witnesses for their work. It's really interesting to look at the very meaningful work that both organizations are doing in their communities. Their recommendations to the committee will help us enrich our study.

My first question is for Mr. Salter.

I'll just pick up a bit on Mr. Dalton's questions about the bleak numbers. There's a perception out there. When you look at anglophones in Montreal, do they need support, versus anglophones in Gaspésie or the Laurentians? There seems to be a discrepancy in either the perception or the support needed for McGill in Montreal versus other institutions in the regions.

Do you have stats that look at more regional...outside of Montreal? What recommendations do you have for us to be working more closely with the Province of Quebec to look at supporting anglophones outside of Montreal, if that's appropriate?

[Nicholas Salter]

Are you interested specifically in anglophones outside of Montreal?

Okay. The regional aspect is, obviously, a pretty important one. We have a breakdown by region, but the situation in terms of the unemployment gap and the income gap can widen significantly, Gaspésie being one example of where there are significant gaps. It's even bigger than what we see at the provincial level. What's needed there is different, perhaps, from what we need in an urban setting, though I would argue that there are still needs in an urban setting, particularly for visible minority communities and other sub-communities within the English-speaking community.

In the regions, it's just about a lack of access to opportunity and a lack of access to services. That's why we strongly believe.... We work with regional partners. There's an existing network of OLMC organizations across the regions that could be better supported to work on employment with a “for us, by us” model, and we think the federal government could play an important role in that.

Obviously, we don't want to duplicate services either, so you want to make sure that the existing services that are being offered by the Quebec government are kind of...and that jurisdiction is respected, while giving the English-speaking community an opportunity to build its own targeted services that meet its unique needs. In fact, each region is different as well, so it can get complicated fast, but that's why you need a tailored approach for each region.

[Chad Walcott]

If I may just add—

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Answer quickly, please.

[Chad Walcott]

English speakers experience higher unemployment in every region of Quebec, with the top three being Côte-Nord, Gaspésie and Montreal, actually, in terms of unemployment.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

We could look at the statistics in Montreal because there's a perception that they may not need that support, but that's something you could provide to the committee.

Ms. Boutiyeb, thank you very much for your organization's six recommendations and for the work you do for, through and with francophone women. You're right, we need to do better.

Among your recommendations, there's one we haven't talked about today. You talked about immigration, gender equality and violence against women.

What are your recommendations for family caregivers? What challenges do they face from a francophone perspective? Is there a specific angle to be considered? Do you have any specific recommendations for the federal government to help with that?

[Soukaina Boutiyeb]

The reality is that there are definitely more services to be provided.

Caregivers are often isolated. During the pandemic, their work became even more visible to us. They have been recognized for the enormous amount of work they do.

Access to respite services and support services in French, as well as services offered to people who are caregiving, is very problematic. The challenge is even greater in rural areas than in urban areas. There's still a lot of work to be done.

One of the recommendations made by some caregivers is the tax credit. The amount they can claim is not enough. Most of the time, these people have to give up their jobs in order to take care of their loved one. Women are often the ones who end up doing this kind of work.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Earlier, you talked about the 15 organizations in your network and the funding you receive from the federal government. What about provincial funding? It seems that some provinces don't provide any support to the organizations in your network.

Can you provide us with a picture of provincial funding? What can we do to ensure that the federal government works more closely with the provinces in this area?

[Soukaina Boutiyeb]

Of the 15 organizations in our network, only seven receive core funding from the Department of Canadian Heritage. As for the other organizations, we will follow up and provide a response to the committee later.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, did I have six minutes' speaking?

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Yes.

I let Mr. Dalton go straight through. I will therefore extend everyone's speaking time equally.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Salter, earlier you talked about support for second-language anglophones. You asked what we could do for them in terms of employment. You also mentioned the situation in Montreal in relation to the regions. That's still a challenge. There are a lot of statistics on that. These are really completely different realities.

I would like to know more about the support needed for anglophones outside Montreal to ensure bilingualism in terms of employment.

[Nicholas Salter]

There are highly francophone communities outside Montreal. We'd be very surprised to learn that there are still unilingual anglophones in the Gaspé, for example. There is a francization component and a French as a second language learning component, but there is also a component related to employment assistance services. The needs are completely different—

[The Chair, Liberal, René Arseneault]

Thank you, Mr. Salter.

I gave an extra minute on that round.

Mr. Beaulieu, since I gave the other two political parties extra time, you have the floor for three minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you.

I'd like to clarify something relating to Mr. Dalton's questions.

Regarding that funding, it was Kathleen Weil, a former member of Alliance Québec, who launched the program. The Legault government decided to keep funding it.

I think you're painting a false and biased portrait of the situation. Let's look at other indicators, such as the median. We know that this indicator doesn't take into account the fact that many anglophones earn very high incomes. The median doesn't take that disparity into account. Statistics Canada data aren't available yet, but if we look at mother tongue, language spoken at home and language used at work, we get a very different portrait. I don't know if you've looked at those numbers.

One researcher, Gilles Grenier, studied the consequences for people who worked in English compared to those who don't work in English. He found that francophones who work in English have higher incomes than those who work only in French. For newcomers, working only in English in the Montreal area pays better than working only in French.

A recent Office québécois de la langue française study found that people who use only English at work earn, on average, $46,000 per year, which is 20% more than the average income of those who work only in French. The situation is very difficult.

The fact is, Mr. Salter, part of the work you do when you target newcomers, immigrants, conflicts with Quebec's efforts to francize them.

[Nicholas Salter]

We are working to help the government of Quebec achieve its objectives. The purpose of our analysis is to understand the needs on the ground. I would say that, not including immigrants, if we look at mother tongue only, my colleague can give you some data—

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That includes immigrants too.

[Nicholas Salter]

If we look at mother tongue, there's still a disparity. Our data are not false. We can show them to you.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

My information suggests otherwise. Please send me your data.

[Nicholas Salter]

I will.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In 2016, there was a gap.

[Nicholas Salter]

We have data for 2021, and there's a gap.