Evidence of meeting #12 for Official Languages in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was it’s.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Béland  Executive Director, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada
Brousseau  Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick
Chamberland  Presiden and Chief Executive Officer, Arsenal Media

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Good morning.

Welcome to meeting number 12 of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Pursuant to paragraph 108(3)(f) of the Standing Orders and the motion adopted by the committee on September 25, we are meeting today to begin our study of the quota of French-language music imposed on French-language media.

I would like to welcome the witnesses to this first hour of the meeting.

From the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada, we have Louis Béland, executive director. From the Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick, we have Carl Monette, president, via videoconference, and Pierre‑Luc Brousseau, chief executive officer, in person.

Welcome, everyone.

Mr. Godin, you seem to want to speak.

11 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Excuse me for interrupting, Mr. Chair.

I would like us to correct the title of the study. Currently, it is called “Quota of French-language music imposed on French-language media”. Maybe it should be called “Quota of French-language music imposed on French-language radio media in Canada”, because we are only receiving people from radio.

The motion did not specify that the quota applied to all media. It was in reference to Cogeco Media, which is a broadcaster.

I don't know if I can get unanimous consent to correct the title of the study. I repeat that we are only receiving people from radio.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

The committee appears to give its unanimous consent. We will change the title.

Each organization has five minutes to make its opening statement. We will then proceed to a question and answer period with the committee members.

Mr. Béland, you have the floor for five minutes.

Louis Béland Executive Director, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, everyone.

Founded in 1991, the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada promotes and defends the interests of minority French-language community radio stations. Twenty-eight of our radio stations broadcast their programs on the FM band while a twenty-ninth broadcasts its programs online while waiting to apply for a licence from the CRTC, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission. This is proof that our communities still have an appetite for the radio medium.

A major player in commercial radio in Quebec recently asked the CRTC to lower the quotas for French-language music and eliminate the concept of prime time. However, the request, which aims to provide more flexibility to commercial broadcasters, is not aligned with the efforts of minority community broadcasters, who continue to constantly promote French-language music, despite all odds.

Certainly, private radio stations are facing competition from foreign digital platforms. That's undeniable. However, it must be remembered that this reality is not unique to private radio, as the entire radio sector in the country is facing pressures from foreign platforms that do not operate under the same rules as we do. If this proposal to lower the minimum threshold for French-language music is provoking such strong reactions in the music industry, among organizations defending the francophonie and among elected officials, it's because radio still plays a predominant role in the discoverability of francophone artists.

What do the Beauséjour group, originally from the Acadian Peninsula, Hubert Cormier from Anse-Bleue, New Brunswick, and the Bilinguish Boys, a Franco-Ontarian musical trio formed in the suburbs of Greater Sudbury, have in common? All have appeared in our national rankings, but few, if any, have had the privilege of being in the top positions on the charts with major private broadcasters. Why? Because it's our francophone community radio stations that still play this essential role of promoting and valuing music in our language, particularly in a minority setting.

Ironically, when commercial radio stations call for a reduction in French-language music quotas, our radio stations far exceed theirs and continue to support local artists by offering a variety of music formats that reflect the diversity of the Canadian francophonie. We could provide many examples of initiatives within our movement to promote artists from the Canadian francophonie, but we'll only mention a few.

Did you know, for example, that in Ontario, in the Georgian Bay area, one of our member radio stations, CFRH, has taken the bold step of offering music programming strictly in French?

In addition, radio stations in the west and the territories recently featured a microphone for young Franco-Manitoban singer-songwriter Micah Baribeau, who hosts a show aimed at introducing French songs to children. Produced by the Association des radios communautaires de l'Ouest et des territoires, the program Micah! Joue de la musique is now broadcast weekly by all our stations across the country.

Finally, we can also mention the two weekly hit parade shows from the Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick, whose representatives are here. For about two decades, one of these shows has shone a spotlight on country music artists and the other on pop-rock artists.

This is plenty of evidence to show the role of community radio in promoting artists from the Canadian francophonie.

That commercial radio stations want to be relieved of their quota of French-language music is one thing. However, if our radio stations become the only ones to promote and value francophone artists in a tangible way, it will undoubtedly be worth giving them the necessary resources to continue doing so. There is a lot of pressure on our small organizations to continue managing music catalogues, creating shows, interviewing artists and building relationships with record labels and promotion agents, despite the pressure from digital giants like Spotify, Apple Music, and others. If we lighten the quotas for French-language songs for private broadcasters, it will be up to our radio stations and them alone to take on the responsibility of promoting and valuing artists from the francophonie. They will therefore need support from the government to continue their mission.

From these observations, we note that our radio stations are pillars for the vitality of the francophone community in Canada. Both the government and the stakeholders in the radio and music industry must acknowledge this. Our radio stations actively contribute to the discoverability and promotion of francophone artists beyond regulatory quotas, in many cases. The diversity of musical formats that our stations broadcast reflects the richness of our francophonie. Our stations are not limited to the Top 40. The reduction of quotas recently requested by commercial radio stations will certainly harm the visibility and promotion of francophone music.

There are solutions to preserve the francophone music ecosystem. Either we refuse to ease the quotas for commercial broadcasters and maintain the current situation, or we allow the reduction of their quotas, but, in return, we improve the existing compensation mechanisms, for example by increasing contributions for the development of Canadian content, to effectively promote and enhance francophone music.

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Thank you, Mr. Béland.

I now give the floor to Mr. Brousseau for five minutes.

Pier-Luc Brousseau Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, good morning. My name is Pier-Luc Brousseau and I'm the chief executive officer of the Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick, ARCANB. We bring together ten French-speaking community radio stations from Edmundston to Moncton, including the Acadian Peninsula and Saint John. These are community stations rooted in urban, rural and sometimes remote areas. In some cases, French is a minority there, but it remains the language of daily life, culture and, of course, radio.

We're here before you today to discuss issues related to quotas and the discoverability of content, as well as other matters. It's also about knowing whether we should reduce the presence of French on the airwaves, at the very moment when Parliament says it wants to strengthen it across the country through new regulations. For us, the answer is definitely no. As you've seen, our brief presents our analysis in detail. However, during the five minutes I've been allotted, I would like to emphasize three main points.

First, French-language quotas are a minimal but essential tool for the vitality of the language and the discoverability of artists. Next, for our artists and cultural businesses, being played on the radio has very real economic benefits. Finally, our members are open to modernizing the regulatory framework, but without reducing the status of French. This is what changes the game for funders and our communities.

As you know, when living in a minority environment, every minute of French on the air counts. It's a moment when a young person hears someone singing in their language with their accent. It's a moment when a family, a small business or a community organization sees itself in what it hears and understands that its reality has a place in the media space. For us, quotas simply require radio stations to make room for French-language music. Once that place exists, it's filled by local artists, by new voices and by a diversity of accents that enriches the Canadian francophonie.

Each broadcast leads to direct benefits, such as royalties paid by the Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada, neighbouring rights, invitations to shows, ticket sales, contracts to perform at festivals and other showcases. For minority francophone artists, these benefits are not just ancillary: they're often essential to the vitality of their artistic projects. Our radio stations play a strategic role for cultural businesses in minority settings. When Acadian artists get considerable airtime, particularly in Quebec, it opens doors for them to tour, perform at festivals and receive invitations to national shows. Take, for example, the group Salebarbe, who were live on Tout le monde en parle last Sunday to present their new album and tour. This wouldn't happen if it weren't for community radio, where things started.

There's also a very significant feedback effect for us. The more a local artist is known elsewhere, the more they're taken seriously at home, because we're proud of people when they make a name for themselves elsewhere. So, reducing the presence of French on the airwaves is not just a technical debate. It risks breaking a virtuous circle that connects radio, artists' revenues and the cultural economy.

At our 10 stations, the first broadcast of an artist is not always the result of a very sophisticated promotional plan. Often, an email is sent directly to the music director or the hosts, because they're friends or people we know. Take, for example, some artists, aside from those my colleague Mr. Béland has already mentioned, such as Joey Robin Haché, Joannie Benoit, La Patante and Les Hay Babies. These are artists from Acadia who are now making their mark in the Canadian and global francophonie, because community radio stations often play artists who do not have a record label or a distribution plan. We also produce educational content with people from the community. In short, it's truly a career pipeline. The radio plays artists, then the public discovers them and later they can be found on other platforms, venues fill up and people buy tickets. All of this creates the effect of a wheel turning to develop new projects and showcase new artists.

In closing, I want to say that we're open to modernizing the regulatory framework. We're open to having some flexibility in the evening or in relation to specialized formats, especially for our volunteer shows. We're open to smarter discoverability indicators that take into account the number of artists, the place of emerging artists and regional diversity. We're open to a formal recognition of community radio stations as partners in language and cultural policy. However, as I said at the start, reducing the role of French would not work for us. The Acadian radio stations in New Brunswick have already made their choice. These are places where French is the majority language, vibrant and creative, and where speaking and creating in French is seen as a natural, normal and valued path.

Thank you for your attention.

We will be very happy to answer any questions you may have.

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Thank you, Mr. Brousseau.

We'll now move on to questions from committee members.

Colleagues, we have 45 minutes left for this part of the meeting. If we stick to the speaking times, we'll be able to have two full rounds of questions. I will therefore monitor the time quite strictly.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Brousseau and Mr. Béland, thank you for participating in the exercise. I think it's important for you to be able to participate in this study, which follows a request made by private radio stations to the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission.

I understand that your mandate is completely different from that of private stations, as you represent community radio stations. What is your financial arrangement? How do you manage to survive financially?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick

Pier-Luc Brousseau

Our financial setup is similar to that of all community organizations, in the sense that many projects are funded through programs. These projects allow us to have employees who are never permanent, because their position always depends on whether or not the programs are renewed.

I'll talk about our situation. Most of the time, in Acadia, and in a part of New Brunswick supported by the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada, we have a journalist position funded as part of the Local Journalism Initiative…

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Is this a program from the Department of Canadian Heritage?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick

Pier-Luc Brousseau

That's correct.

There is therefore a journalist position assigned to the news.

Other positions may be funded under the Radiomètres program administered by the Community Radio Fund of Canada. These are one-time projects, once again, that allow for the creation of content and shows and fund to some extent positions aimed at creating online content, in addition to music.

Of course, we also rely on advertising revenue. However, in the community sector, this type of revenue brings in much less than in a commercial station. Although it is essential, it does not cover all our expenses.

It also allows us to say that the only positions that cannot be subsidized, and which often count for a lot, are management positions, like that of my president, Mr. Monette, who is participating in this meeting remotely and is also the general manager of a radio station. His position cannot be subsidized because there is no program that allows it. That's not the reason we're participating in today's meeting either.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Do you have the means to grow your community radio stations or are you in survival mode?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick

Pier-Luc Brousseau

We are in growth mode in New Brunswick because there's investment—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Are you in growth mode financially or in terms of ratings?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick

Pier-Luc Brousseau

We are on both fronts.

As the francophone population decreases, the advocacy organizations in our community network have decided to join forces to defend our French language.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Okay.

You say you're growing. Do you have any data on your ratings?

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Can you tell us about the evolution of the ratings over the past five years?

Mr. Béland, I will get back to you shortly.

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick

Pier-Luc Brousseau

Over the past five years, it's been observed that, on average, 75% of the francophone population of New Brunswick listened to francophone stations, including Mr. Monette's, every day.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

For me, “75% of the population” is a decline.

11:15 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Association des radios communautaires acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick

Pier-Luc Brousseau

Yes, but we are reaching these people.

You asked me what the ratings were for the last few years. We have experienced lean years. We are no different from others. However, if we look at the situation of each station, from our smallest to our largest, we realize that, thanks to the structure we've put in place and the general managers who are in position, we're making progress.

On average, we indeed reach 75% of the population. In a small area like Kedgwick and Saint-Quentin, where our stations reached 5,000 to 6,000 people five years ago, they now reach nearly 8,000, and it's still a small area.

In our major centres, there's CJSA-FM, one of the largest stations in the country, or even CKRO, and we reach 40,000, 50,000, 60,000 listeners, and even more. We can see a progression in terms of music listening, but also in terms of broadcast content.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Brousseau.

Mr. Béland, with respect to the financial setup of your association, there's the standard model, but I understand that you have several models. However, there must be some renewal of funding.

11:15 a.m.

Executive Director, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada

Louis Béland

I'll continue on my colleague Pier-Luc Brousseau's comments, but my analysis will be a bit different.

My mind may be a bit more pessimistic, but I don't think we are in growth mode nationally. Our stations are having a lot of difficulty surviving, particularly in the smaller minority language communities. There are funding and revenue generation mechanisms. We rely heavily on the Department of Canadian Heritage, for which I am extremely grateful.

However, as my colleague mentioned, the majority of our funding is project-based, not for everyday activities. So, it's very difficult for small organizations to navigate all this.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Joël Godin Conservative Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

I understand the situation, and I share your opinion. I understand that you don't bite the hand that feeds you. Indeed, Canadian Heritage plays a very important role. I understand that.

That said, in terms of musical content, if we changed the rules of the game for private radio, what would be the consequences for your organization? I'm not talking about public radio, like Radio-Canada, or community radio, like your organization, which seems to have a good modus operandi. The government could increase your financial assistance instead of giving $150 million to CBC/Radio‑Canada, as proposed in the latest budget, which was unnecessary. We could have supported our official language minority communities.

How do you envision the future with this model with respect to private radio, public radio and community radio? What could we do, what recommendations could we make to help you right now?

The Chair Liberal Yvan Baker

Please provide a very short answer, as there are only 10 seconds left.