Official Languages Committee on Oct. 9th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Welcome to meeting number four of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. For those participating remotely, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute.

I would like to remind everyone of the following: please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking; all comments should be addressed through the chair; and if you wish to speak, please raise your hand, whether you are attending in the room or remotely using the Zoom application. The clerk and I will do our best to follow the speaking order.

Before we go any further, I'd like to inform the committee that there are a few housekeeping items that will require our attention. If the committee agrees, we'll take a few minutes once the witness panels are finished.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on September 25, 2025, we are meeting today to resume our study on the minority-language education continuum, which began in the last session.

I would like to welcome our panel. Joining us in person is Daniel Dion, board chair of the Association locale des enseignantes et des enseignants Fransaskois. We also have, by video conference, Christian Leclerc, president of the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie-Britannique, as well as the organization's executive director, Marie‑Andrée Asselin. Finally, we have, by video conference, Denis Desgagné, executive director of the Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences. To all of you, welcome.

Each organization will have five minutes for their opening statement, after which, we will move on to the question and answer portion of our meeting. We will start with Mr. Dion.

Mr. Dion, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Daniel Dion, Chair, Association locale des enseignantes et des enseignants fransaskois]

Good morning.

My name is Daniel Dion, and I am the board chair of the Association locale des enseignantes et des enseignants fransaskois. Our association represents more than 200 teachers in the Conseil des écoles fransaskoises, in Saskatchewan, the only French-language school board providing French-language education to approximately 2,300 students, from junior kindergarten to grade 12.

Before I paint a picture of the environment our teachers have to work in, it is important to highlight how far French-language education has come in Saskatchewan since the establishment of French-language school management, in 1995.

A watershed moment in my development as a francophone happened in September 1997, so 28 years ago, when I was only 12 years old: the opening of a French school in the small village of Zenon Park. This school allowed me to continue my education in French, in my community, without any compromise. My brothers and sisters did not benefit from that right. I closed the loop after high school and university, when I accepted a teaching position in the very same French‑language school board where I was a student. Now, after 18 years of teaching, I find myself before you as a witness. I am here because of the profound direct impact section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms had on me as a young Franco-Saskatchewanian. Despite all the progress that has been made, there is still a lot of work to be done to right the wrongs of the past and deal with the inequality of opportunity francophone students face to this day.

In education, we work with people. Some have bigger needs than others, and it falls on teachers to meet those often complex needs using the tools and resources at their disposal. However, like many French school boards across the country, we are affected by the current teacher shortage. It is felt more acutely in rural schools, where geographic, cultural and professional isolation remain an issue. Therefore, faced with limited options, we sometimes need to fill those teaching positions with local community members who don't have a teaching degree.

To ensure the desired learning outcomes, teachers must have access to the necessary educational resources. Unfortunately, the lack of resources created for academic programs in Saskatchewan has been a constant challenge since the first Franco-Saskatchewanian school was opened. Since our school board is so small, it is not profitable for publishers to create and sell resources designed for our academic programs. This means teachers use resources created for academic programs in other provinces, or even countries, and adapt them to suit their needs, and this requires a lot of effort. One can understand why teachers are frustrated when they see the amount of resources created for equivalent English-language academic programs.

Like all other school boards, we do not have a homogeneous student body. Many of our students have learning difficulties or socio-emotional issues, or face psychological barriers or language issues, just to name a few. Although this is not unique to French schools, the tools and resources available to us are rare and hard to find. As an example, wait times for a student who needs to be assessed are very long, sometimes up to two years, because of limited access to psychologists, occupational therapists, speech therapists and other professionals who work in French. This can seriously delay these vulnerable students' progress.

The challenges we face with our infrastructure also need to be mentioned. Many of our rural schools are old and are in need of major repairs. Meanwhile, some of our urban schools are overcrowded.

Finally, I would like to salute our teachers, who persevere in their efforts to transform students' lives despite all the obstacles.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much.

I will now give the floor to the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie-Britannique. It seems we're having some technical issues. Therefore, I will ask Marie‑Andrée Asselin, executive director of the organization, to make the presentation.

[Marie-Andrée Asselin, Executive Director, Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie-Britannique]

Mr. Chair, honourable members, thank you on behalf of the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie-Britannique for inviting us to contribute to the study on the minority-language education continuum.

The Fédération des parents francophones has been working on the francophone education file since it was created in 1979 and represents the parents of the 55,000 children who are entitled to primary and secondary education in French here in British Columbia. The Fédération des parents also operates child care centres.

Our organization was a strong supporter of the Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie-Britannique, or CSF, and co-plaintiff with the CSF in the legal case that led to a victory at the Supreme Court of Canada in 2020.

For more than 20 years, the early childhood sector has been an essential component of French-language education. Access to such education in British Columbia obviously requires a network of schools that provide education to children in French as a first language. However, education in French must be understood in its broad sense. It starts in early childhood, at day care, and goes all the way to post-secondary education. Moreover, the entire minority-language education continuum should benefit from the constitutional guarantee.

Access to early childhood services in French is a fundamental issue for the vitality and development of our francophone minority communities, especially because they contribute to the transfer of language and culture to new generations. However, the problems in early childhood education remain.

For example, when it comes to infrastructure, the demand for French-language early child care services continues to far outstrip the availability of those services. According to the latest census, British Columbia has approximately 4,000 children aged four and under whose first language learned is French. However, there are only about 450 spaces in preschool centres providing services in French. In the vast majority of cases, parents have no choice but to enrol their child in an anglophone day care centre. That situation has painful consequences for the low rate of transmission of French among children with one French-speaking parent. To reverse this trend, we need long-term, structural solutions.

In terms of human resources, the impacts of the shortage of early childhood educators that is affecting the entire province are felt more acutely in our communities, whose vitality depends on access to early childhood services in French.

The action plan for official languages 2023-2028 includes additional investments in early childhood. We are very pleased that Employment and Social Development Canada recently granted $47.7 million over three years to the Commission nationale des parents francophones, or CNPF, to deploy a network of early childhood service providers. We are also delighted with the implementation of initiatives in francophone official language minority communities, as the needs in early childhood are urgent.

The fact remains that the impermanent nature of the federal structure when it comes to supporting minority-language education and early childhood services in French, as well as the lack of concrete obligations in this regard, are keeping francophone minority communities in a perpetual state of uncertainty. What will we do in March 2028 when the current action plan for official languages sunsets? Has our school system been built without a permanent, structuring government financial commitment?

The current legislative framework made it possible for early childhood to be virtually excluded from the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018. Legally, nothing is preventing a future government from reverting to this situation with its next action plan for official languages.

Despite the recognition of the “unique needs of francophone minorities” in the agreements with the provinces and territories on the national child care program, the Fédération des parents francophones notes a lack of transparency, a lack of consultation and a lack of effective accountability mechanisms. Even worse, nothing is preventing a future government from abandoning this language provision when agreements are renewed.

There are many challenges when it comes to French-language early childhood education in British Columbia. For parents who speak French, living west of the Rockies should not be synonymous with their children's linguistic assimilation. Canada's linguistic duality must expand and be fully experienced, on a daily basis, from coast to coast to coast.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much.

I would now like to give the floor to Denis Desgagné, from the Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences, or RESDAC.

You have the floor for five minutes, Mr. Desgagné.

[Denis Desgagné, Executive Director, Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences]

Mr. Chair, the network's chair will be speaking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Mr. Krajewski, can you introduce yourself so that everyone knows your name and title?

[Geoffroy Krajewski, Chair, Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences]

Of course.

My name is Geoffroy Krajewski, and I am the chair of RESDAC.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Krajewski, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Geoffroy Krajewski]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On behalf of the Réseau pour le développement de l'alphabétisme et des compétences, or RESDAC, I would like to thank you for the invitation to present our brief today.

We want to contribute to your work, more specifically on two issues. First, isn't the notion of the education continuum restrictive, compared to that of lifelong learning? Second, what positive measures should federal institutions take to support a lifelong learning continuum?

Let's start with the first question about the education continuum. As you know, the new Official Languages Act stipulates that:

41(3) The Government of Canada is committed to advancing formal, non-formal and informal opportunities for members of English and French linguistic minority communities to pursue quality learning in their own language throughout their lives…

Therefore, the perspective of the act goes beyond the idea of an education continuum that would fall solely within the purview of formal educational institutions, such as schools, colleges or universities that award degrees. It now implies a continuum that also embraces the non-formal learning context—for example, developing skills in the workplace or in associations, as well as learning in an informal context, such as by reading, discussing, observing, tinkering or playing.

We therefore recommend that the committee redefine the education continuum, taking into account the concept of lifelong learning, so as not to forget the non-formal and informal learning contexts that are often overlooked, even though they contribute fundamentally to the vitality of our communities.

Concerning the issue of positive measures to support lifelong learning, for the past four years, RESDAC and its partners in francophone communities have set out to define a new social vision around the notion of learning. We are gradually implementing a major strategy to transform our communities into learning communities.

To support our communities in their efforts to become learning communities, RESDAC is putting in place a number of tools: a reference framework of skills for growth, which captures the specific needs of individuals in the francophone minority; the Francobadges platform for digital micro-credentialing of those skills; and a protocol for certification of organizations and learning communities.

We've also set up the Plateforme canadienne de formation à distance—Canadian platform for distance education—or PCFAD; the TOPO RESDAC learning resource geolocation platform; an artificial intelligence-assisted skills assessment platform; and a centre of expertise that supports all those initiatives.

We also recommend that the committee encourage federal institutions to adopt positive measures in support of our initiatives that meet the needs expressed by our francophone communities. Here are a few of them: support the holding of provincial and territorial summits to identify the needs and aspirations of communities at the local and regional levels; support the creation and facilitation of round tables that will orchestrate the implementation of learning communities; support training and skills development initiatives for thriving; support the implementation of the Francobadges credentials and skills recognition platform; and support employment and skills development strategies assisted by artificial intelligence.

In a recent brief submitted to the Department of Finance as part of the budget consultations, RESDAC noted that the major federal measures to support skills development to the tune of billions of dollars were forgetting or marginalizing our francophone minority communities.

We also recommend that the committee ask the Treasury Board Secretariat, in the context of the new regulations on part VII of the Official Languages Act, to name the federal institutions that are specifically called upon to adopt positive measures in support of non-formal and informal learning, to advocate the “by and for” communities approach and to require language clauses in federal, provincial and territorial agreements.

Finally, more generally, we recommend that the committee encourage collaboration between the various levels of government, educational institutions, community organizations and the private sector in order to create a genuine learning ecosystem that fosters the growth of francophones across Canada.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much.

Before we begin the first round of questions, I propose that we take a one-minute break to resolve technical issues Mr. Leclerc is having.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I call the meeting back to order.

Mr. Leclerc, I'm sorry that the sound test was negative. As the clerk told you, the members will put their questions to Ms. Asselin. However, if you have anything further to offer committee members, you can do so by contacting the clerk in writing.

We will now begin the first round of questions.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for joining us.

I apologize for being late. I'm going to make amends. I was in a different Parliament building. No one but me is responsible.

Mr. Dion, as I understand it, the situation of francophones in Saskatchewan is good, but you need additional tools to improve access to services in French. Can you put that in perspective?

Earlier, the executive director of the Fédération des parents francophones de la Colombie-Britannique said that there were 4,000 children in that province aged four and under whose mother tongue is French, but there were only 450 spaces in preschool centres that provide services in French.

Does Saskatchewan have the same ratio between the number of clients and the number of spaces? What I'm hearing is that the cause of the problem isn't a lack of clientele. Rather, it is a lack of structures and infrastructure.

Can you explain the situation to me?

[Daniel Dion]

We estimate there to be approximately 12,000 rights holders from kindergarten to grade 12 in Saskatchewan. Those are potential clients—if I can put it that way—of francophone schools. However, our school board institutions currently have only about 2,300 rights holders.

In some regions, the francophone population is quite large, but there is no access to a francophone school, unfortunately.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Is that due to the fact that infrastructure is not accessible enough and that school transportation, which takes too long, discourages young people and encourages them to enrol in English-language schools?

[Daniel Dion]

Yes, those are two important factors.

The lack of accessibility to a school is partly explained by the distance that students have to travel. Some communities are several hundred kilometres away from the nearest francophone school. So it is not reasonable to expect a student to travel four or five hours every day to go to school.

In addition, in some urban areas, such as Regina or Saskatoon, the schools are not really well located. Therefore, some students decide to continue their education in the majority language for reasons of accessibility, transportation and distance.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

We all agree that there is a lot of room for improvement.

That said, if you were to become a legislator tomorrow morning and had to prioritize a single recommendation, what would it be?

[Daniel Dion]

I think priority should be given to students who deserve and need the education.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

That is to say, to rights holders.

Is that correct?

[Daniel Dion]

Yes, I'm thinking of rights holders.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Asselin, I know that, in the past, your organization has worked hard and fought to ensure respect for official languages and for the rights rooted in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

As I mentioned earlier, you said that 4,000 children aged four and under needed French-language child care, but only 450 spaces were available. That accounts for about 10% of those children. So it's a big hill to climb to meet the needs of children who are entitled to preschool services in French.

I share your opinion that it is important for our young people to study in French across the education continuum.

That said, at what age do children begin to be part of the education continuum, from early childhood to post-secondary education? How do you define early childhood?

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

Early childhood includes all the years of a child's life in the child care system. Normally, children enter day care after parental leave ends, and they can be aged six to 12 months. They stay there until kindergarten, which usually starts at five years old in Canada. That's the early childhood period.

We advocate for the implementation of a stable funding structure to enable us to administer all child care programs, which cover both children under the age of five and those attending school day cares. They accommodate children before and after school. In order for the system to be sustainable, it must include the full range of child care.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Okay.

I'm almost out of time, so we have to be quick.

From what I understand, the important thing for you would be to have predictability and stability in funding.

Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Please be brief, Ms. Asselin.

[Marie-Andrée Asselin]

Child care projects take two to three years to start up. The action plan for official languages ends in 2028. What will happen to those projects? It takes teams to move them forward, to work with school boards and to develop capital projects.

What will happen to the projects planned to start up in the next few years?