Official Languages Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

I now give the floor to Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault for five minutes.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their participation today.

My first question is for the witnesses from Alberta.

You talked about early childhood. As we know, early childhood is the gateway to the education continuum. As part of the two most recent action plans for official languages, significant amounts have been invested to support francophone early childhood. A number of innovative projects have been implemented in Alberta, but there are still regions where needs aren't being met.

Could you tell us what could be done overall to ensure the sustainability of the francophone early childhood sector in Alberta, both in places that already benefit from innovative projects and in regions that are currently less well served, where needs have to be better met?

[Nathalie Lachance]

I'll try to answer, and if it doesn't work, Ms. Laurin will take over.

First and foremost, our students need access to post-secondary education so that we can make sure to train the workforce we need.

Second, it's very important that federal-provincial agreements include language clauses, because that underscores the importance of offering services in French.

Finally, it's important to always make sure that there's enough funding, because, honestly, the needs in early childhood are very pressing throughout the province.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

Over the past few years, we've seen many headlines in Alberta about post-secondary education in French, particularly with Campus Saint‑Jean.

Could you give us a brief update on the current status of that?

[Nathalie Lachance]

What we've learned from Campus Saint‑Jean in recent months is that there has been a nice increase in staff, with more students admitted this year than in the past. I tip my hat to Campus Saint‑Jean for that.

However, it's been noted that there hasn't necessarily been an increase in the programs offered. There's also a challenge related to erasing the history of Saint‑Jean and Alberta's francophonie on campus, which is a problem in an institution that trains part of the workforce. The bachelor's degree in education at Campus Saint‑Jean is very important. We want to make sure that this knowledge of Alberta's francophonie is preserved and always visible. We want to ensure that educators and teachers understand the importance of Alberta's francophonie with its challenges and successes, and that they can speak about it eloquently. I'm talking about all educators and teachers, whether they're in French-language schools or immersion schools, or whether they're teaching French in second-language programs in anglophone schools.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Ms. Lachance.

I'll turn to you now, Mr. Fiola.

You offer various programs at Campus Saint‑Jean, including the education program, but also other programs in a bilingual educational environment. I'd first like to know approximately what proportion of your students come from French immersion programs.

[Marco Fiola]

That's a very high proportion. About 20% of our students at Glendon are first-language francophones; 80% aren't, and at least half of those who aren't come from the French immersion system in Ontario. Among the francophones, a high proportion of students are immigrants. Those are foreign students who come to Glendon to study with us in French and English.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you. The reason I asked about immersion is that we've seen, over the past decade, a substantial increase in the number of students in immersion programs across the country. When students go through French immersion in secondary school and continue in French at the post-secondary level, that's a period of reinforcing their learning of language skills. How does your campus help strengthen Ontario's francophonie, particularly by reinforcing the use of French among people who have gone through immersion?

[Marco Fiola]

That's a great question. In fact, we're trying to improve our students' ability or ease as professionals, in both French and English. We raise their level of bilingualism to a professional standard so that they can provide services and support, and pursue graduate studies in either official language. That's the big difference. If they have received basic immersion training, when they arrive, we push them toward a professional knowledge of both official languages. That would mean they take an economics course, for example, in both languages.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Deschênes‑Thériault.

Members, we're moving on to the third round of questions. We have 15 to 16 minutes left before we move on to the matter you raised, Mr. Beaulieu.

I propose that we do the first part of the third round, so one member from each party will ask questions. We'll begin with Mr. Godin, who will have five minutes. Mr. Villeneuve will follow, for five minutes. Finally, Mr. Beaulieu will have two and a half minutes.

Is that okay with everyone? Yes, perfect.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for the people from Alberta.

You told us that there are currently 10,000 students out of a possible 75,000 students. Those 75,000 students represent a much larger proportion than in the only bilingual province in Canada, which is New Brunswick. That's interesting, because it shows that there's good potential in Alberta.

Now, we hear Liberal Party members saying that the government has invested a lot of money, $4.1 billion, in the action plan for official languages, or APOL. However, if I understand correctly, that solution doesn't enable you to increase the number of students who have access to education in French.

Is that correct?

[Nathalie Lachance]

The additional funding is helping us, there's no doubt about that.

We're talking about the challenge we're facing. We need to have more funds to catch up on the decades-long delay. Alberta's francophonie needs additional funding to support the rapid growth of our population. We're working with funding formulas that have stagnated and haven't increased with that growth.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Lachance.

I'd like to ask you to give me a very simple figure: How many Albertan students were studying in French five years ago compared with the 10,000 students today?

[Nathalie Lachance]

Off the top of my head, I would say there were maybe 7,000 students five years ago. We would have to check that; we could send you the exact figures.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

If you could send that information to the committee, I would appreciate it.

My next question is for the three witnesses we have here this morning.

I think the takeaway is this: We have to find tools and possible solutions to be able to grow the francophonie in Canada. You've all put forward recommendations, such as recommendations 3, 4 and 2. I'd like to know which of your recommendations would be the most important if you could only table one. Imagine a genie coming into the room and telling you that you're entitled to only one wish. Which one will be most effective in improving the francophonie in Canada?

We can take turns. We'll begin with Mr. Ajavon, followed by Mr. Fiola and Ms. Lachance.

Mr. Ajavon, what do you think?

[Ronald Ajavon]

I would ask for greater positive federal involvement in funding, whether in terms of operating costs or capital funding for the construction of schools.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Before I let the other witnesses answer, I'd like to know if federal money makes it to you, Mr. Ajavon.

[Ronald Ajavon]

I would say that some of the money makes it.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Fiola, it's your turn.

[Marco Fiola]

Thank you for your question.

I won't hide it from you; my answer will be very selfish. I'd ask for more predictable funding with an increase that takes into account the fact that, when programming is offered in a bilingual environment, as is my case, there are often costs associated with bilingualism. Those costs are higher than for a unilingual institution. I have to provide services in both languages. I have to have websites. I have to have recruitment teams that work in both communities. We don't recruit francophone students the same way we recruit bilingual or anglophone students. Funding has to take that fact into account.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You're talking about predictability, and that surely includes predictability in terms of the pool of students who can come and study at your university. We know what happened a year ago: The Liberal government drastically reduced international student enrolment without warning. That's a statistic that destabilized your management, isn't it?

[Marco Fiola]

That change even destabilized the entire academic community, no matter where in Canada.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Fiola.

Ms. Laurin or Ms. Lachance, would you like to answer my question?

[Nathalie Lachance]

When it comes to Alberta's francophonie, we're talking about a francophonie that's truly international. The recognition of prior learning is still one of our priorities. I'm talking about anything that can be done to simplify that process so the people who come here with a great education can enter the workforce quickly. That will also encourage them to keep their children in French-language schools and to continue contributing to the vitality of the francophonie.