Official Languages Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Ronald Ajavon]

It's appropriate to use part VII of the Official Languages Act, particularly section 41 and its subsections 41(1) and 41(2), which aim to promote the vitality of language communities—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Ajavon, I'm sorry to interrupt. I have 30 seconds left and I want to ask Mr. Fiola a question. We can continue our discussion later. If not, you can send us additional information in writing.

Mr. Fiola, you said you were preparing the next immersion teachers.

How many applications do you receive? How many graduates are there?

Are some of those people immigrants?

[Marco Fiola]

In any given year, we have about 50 students who come to us for a Bachelor of Education in French as a Second Language.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

How many are there?

[Marco Fiola]

There are about the same number, because the students we admit to this bachelor's program have already completed a bachelor's degree in French studies at our university. I would say that skills are sorted upstream of admission to the education program. If we admit 50 or so, there will generally be close to 50 who graduate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Mr. Godin, I'm sorry, your time is up.

Thank you very much. There will be another round of questions, and you can continue the discussion.

I now give the floor to Ms. Mingarelli for six minutes.

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fiola, thank you for being with us.

Your Bachelor of Education in French as a Second Language program aims to train the next generation of teachers.

What are the main challenges your graduates face when they try to teach in the country's French-language or immersion schools?

[Marco Fiola]

That's a great question.

Generally, French-language schools across the country recruit students who have completed a bachelor's degree in French education, for teaching French to native speakers of French. The program is different. French isn't taught to immersion students the same way it's taught to students whose mother tongue is French. The teaching is different. The educational approach may be different.

As I said a little earlier, in some regions and communities, there may be rights holders who are in immersion because there is no native speaker program or simply because the French as a second language program is offered in a school offering more services and opportunities. You'd have to talk to parents. They might tell you the same story I'm telling you.

We have partnerships with associations like Canadian Parents for French and French for the Future. That's more or less what they're telling us as well. These associations have pretty much the same opinion.

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you very much.

As Glendon College is a French-language institution in a minority setting, what are the biggest challenges it faces in maintaining and expanding its programs available in French?

[Marco Fiola]

That's also a great question.

I'm going to correct you slightly. The college is a bilingual educational institution. That means we offer programs in French and programs in English. What we offer students is an immersive and bilingual learning framework.

We have programs in French only. For example, earlier I mentioned the bachelor's degree in French studies. We also have programs offered in both English and French, and a program that is in English only, the English studies program, of course.

Does that answer your question?

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Fiola.

Mr. Ajavon, thank you as well for being with us today.

The Conseil des écoles fransaskoises manages 16 primary and secondary schools in the province.

How many of them are high schools?

In your opinion, do high school graduates want to pursue their post-secondary education in French, even if the options are far more limited out west than they are in eastern Canada?

[Ronald Ajavon]

Thank you. That's a great question.

We have high schools in both major cities. All the other schools are combined primary and secondary schools, except in Regina and Saskatoon, which have stand-alone primary schools.

After grade 12, many students would like to continue their post-secondary studies in French, but they can't do so because few institutions offer programs in French after high school. Sometimes the programs simply don't exist. They are therefore inclined to continue their education in other provinces.

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have two minutes.

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Conseil des écoles fransaskoises says that Franco-Saskatchewanian schools have a threefold mandate: a school mandate, a cultural mandate and a community mandate.

Mr. Ajavon, could you explain in more detail how these three mandates are implemented in your schools?

[Ronald Ajavon]

The school mandate, which we all know, concerns everything related to training, to studies. What we call the identity mandate is the provision of cultural programming and an approach aimed at ensuring the vitality of community identity.

In our schools, we have community school centres, where the community is present. For example, in Regina, all the community organizations offer French-language activities to students. This vibrancy enables students to have a better life in French and assert their francophone identity. Our school board also reflects these values.

[Giovanna Mingarelli, Liberal, Prescott—Russell—Cumberland, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, I'm done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much.

I now give the floor to Mr. Beaulieu for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Ajavon, you gave a very good presentation. It was very interesting.

You talked about the historical wrongs that have been done when it comes to teaching French. We know that there are a number of laws in Saskatchewan that prohibited teaching French at one time.

Can you tell us a bit more about that and approximately when those laws ceased to apply?

When did teaching French really begin?

[Ronald Ajavon]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Beaulieu.

When it comes to teaching French, 100 years ago, young people had to hide in basements to study French. Those wrongs have remained.

These days, when you speak to seniors in French, it ignites emotions in them related to that past. Their children, who are now parents in the various communities, are still wondering today whether French will be a source of problems and challenges for their children in the future if they go to a French-language school.

That's precisely why I'm really talking about righting these past wrongs. This requires governments to implement positive measures, at both the provincial and federal levels.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You talked about systemic barriers.

Do you feel that the Government of Saskatchewan is really committed to righting these historical wrongs?

[Ronald Ajavon]

Yes, I really do. We're working with the government to right these wrongs. I made some recommendations earlier. I would add that the people around this table have a pivotal role to play. The federal government will have a positive role to play in remedying the situation, as set out in the new version of the Official Languages Act. It will have to implement measures where the provincial government is not doing so.

I'll give you a concrete example. When a new school is announced, the federal government is always ready to fund the community portion. That's being done very well by the federal government. The problem is that the school project has to get under way.

Why wait when we know that students are living in unacceptable situations in Canada, as if they were in a third world country?

Why can't the federal government intervene earlier in the process? Can we reverse the order of things?

That would simply enable us to achieve the results we're aiming for here, at this table. If these new schools are there, the children will go and study at French-language post-secondary educational institutions. The development of francophone communities that we're aiming for would be more easily attainable.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You wonder why the federal government doesn't intervene. It's because education is a provincial jurisdiction.

When French-language instruction was banned in almost all the provinces, which are now anglophone, the federal government did nothing. It didn't intervene at all. Today, provincial governments seem to be letting things slide, allowing assimilation to happen. They make very little effort.

You said that your schools are falling into disrepair a bit. There really is a double standard. It's going to be very difficult.

In Quebec, the situation is reversed. English-language schools have always been overfunded. Today, it's more balanced, but there are still disparities when it comes to colleges and universities.

So you think that the provincial governments don't really have the will to act and that it would then be up to the federal government to take action.

Is that right?

[Ronald Ajavon]

I think provincial governments should always be encouraged to play their role, which is very important.

On top of that, I think it's also important for the federal government to play a positive role in this, particularly in the area of health. This is done in other cases.

I understand very well that education is a provincial jurisdiction, but I think we can go a little further to right these wrongs.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In this case, there really needs to be asymmetry in the act, and we've started to see that. We'll talk about it again, because so far, in Quebec, action has only been taken to strengthen English, which is growing.

French is in decline in the provinces. As a result, the Official Languages Act pits francophones outside Quebec against francophones in Quebec because of the alleged asymmetry.

You're talking about systemic barriers, which result in underfunding. Can you tell us a little more about that?