Official Languages Committee on Oct. 30th, 2025

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

On the same issue, I'm a little concerned about what's happening right now. I'm not blaming anyone, especially not the technicians, but this is the second time this has happened at the beginning of a meeting. Last time, we had the right headsets.

I also wonder if every committee has the same problem. I understand that problems can arise when a witness doesn't have the right headset, but when that's not the case, something really needs to be corrected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Dalton.

I agree with you. We could add that question to the request for information that the clerk is going to submit.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I think the interpreters are not at all happy with the new agreement and the new offers that have been proposed by Public Services and Procurement Canada. It may be related to that. They may be stricter. We had a meeting on interpreters, and the worst-case scenario happened. The interpreters are not at all happy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

I'm mindful of the time of our colleagues, but also of the witnesses who are before us. I think the clerk promised that she would answer the questions that were asked. I agree with you that we need to take steps to make sure that doesn't happen in the future. It's possible.

I would like to tell the witnesses who are participating in the meeting virtually that all members of the committee want to hear their testimony. They want to make sure this issue doesn't happen going forward. We're hoping to correct the issue in the next few minutes. However, if that's not possible, I hope the witnesses will be prepared to testify before us at a future meeting, once the technical problems have been resolved.

Mr. Beaulieu has asked that we take 10 or 15 minutes after our witnesses' appearance to deal with a motion. Do the committee members agree that we should take 10 or 15 minutes to discuss the topic proposed by Mr. Beaulieu?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much.

My understanding is that we're going to spend an hour with the witnesses who are in the room. If the technical issues are resolved for our video conference witnesses, we'll set aside half an hour at the end for them, if they're available. If the issues are not resolved, we will move on to the topic proposed by Mr. Beaulieu, and we will invite those witnesses to appear before us at another meeting.

Is that what we've decided?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Okay.

I have a couple of housekeeping items to discuss.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Committee members, please raise your hand if you wish to speak, whether you're participating in person or on Zoom. The committee clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on September 25, 2025, the committee is meeting today to continue its study on the minority-language education continuum.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses who are with us in person. They are Ronald Ajavon, chief executive officer of the Conseil des écoles fransaskoises, and Marco Fiola, principal, Glendon College, York University.

Each organization will have five minutes for their opening remarks. We will then proceed to a question and answer period with committee members.

Mr. Ajavon, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Ronald Ajavon, Chief Executive Officer, Conseil des écoles fransaskoises]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak today on this topic, which is also important to us.

I have been working at the Conseil des écoles fransaskoises, or CEF, for a little over 10 years. The continuum, from early childhood to post-secondary education, is a fundamental pillar for the linguistic and cultural vitality of our francophone minority communities in Canada.

In Saskatchewan, the survival of French depends on an integrated, accessible and quality education system, from pre-kindergarten to post-secondary education. A number of systemic barriers persist. They create significant problems for the system's proper functioning. I'm thinking in particular of underfunding.

I'll go over the historical context.

For nearly a century, teaching French was illegal in Saskatchewan, and that created a historic and profound harm in the Saskatchewan community.

Section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms recognizes the right to education in the minority language and imposes an obligation on the provincial and federal governments to guarantee substantive equivalence for the children of rights holders.

Under Saskatchewan's Education Act, 1995, we have the exclusive responsibility to offer French first-language education. However, this responsibility is sometimes exercised within a legislative and administrative framework that, de facto, strongly favours majority schools. That reproduces the structural inequalities, which have been denounced for several decades.

Early childhood is an essential link in the continuum, and it must not be overlooked. However, it is sometimes neglected. Early childhood is also a recognized but unfunded linguistic vulnerability.

French-language linguistic development plays a pivotal role, an essential role. In Saskatchewan, most of our programs for pre-kindergarten 3 and pre-kindergarten 4—for children aged three and four—are not funded, and the programs for five-year-olds are funded only on a part-time basis. Since this program is offered on a full-time basis, that creates problems. Those children sometimes have language vulnerabilities. We're missing those vulnerabilities on the pre-kindergarten-to-kindergarten side of things, which costs a lot more in the future. It's also a huge loss for our communities.

I will now talk about capitalization. We have a number of schools and communities. Among our 12 communities, a number of infrastructure projects are not currently funded. We are aiming for access to local schools, which would reduce the distance to travel to school and provide accessible services to our rights holders.

Census data show that there are more than 11,000 rights holders. We have only 20% of them in our schools, which is also a pretty significant harm. Therefore, we ask that these measures be corrected.

The continuum is weakened, which is also the case at the post-secondary level. Once students finish their studies in the system, they need to hope to be able to find their way into the core post-secondary program. As far as this component is concerned, this lack of adapted post-secondary programming creates challenges. We see many young people leaving the Franco-Saskatchewanian community and going elsewhere, which further weakens our communities.

Here are some recommendations I would like to submit to the committee.

You know that the Conseil des écoles fransaskoises is always ready to work, and we thank you for all the steps that have been taken under part VII of the Official Languages Act, more specifically section 41.

Our goal is really to fully exercise the power conferred by this provision—that is to say the spending power to support the effective implementation of section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

More specifically, the CEF recommends that the federal government be able to initiate and directly announce projects to build or expand French-language schools in minority communities. The CEF requests this without relying on a prior request from the provincial government, when the data show the following: a sufficient number of rights holders confirmed by Statistics Canada; a situation of overcrowding, obsolescence or the absence of local schools; or a cumulative delay in the implementation of section 23.

This approach is based on subsection 41(1) of the Official Languages Act, which requires the Government of Canada to enhance the vitality of official language minority communities and support their development, and subsection 41(2), which requires federal institutions to take positive measures to implement that commitment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Mr. Ajavon, I'm sorry to interrupt. Your five minutes are up.

Could you wrap up quickly, in a few words? You'll be able to tell us more during the question and answer period.

[Ronald Ajavon]

Thank you for the reminder.

It's all in my brief. Our second recommendation concerns funding for school operating expenses. Again, the same thing is possible.

I want to thank you for your time today. I look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Mr. Ajavon.

Mr. Fiola, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marco Fiola, Principal, Glendon College, York University]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to begin by thanking the members of the committee for the opportunity to speak to you today. I want you to know that I appreciate the privilege of being able to communicate directly with you as a representative of a bilingual institution.

York University, an Ontario post-secondary institution with a bilingual faculty called Glendon College, of which I am the principal, would like to share with the committee members the role that francophone or bilingual post-secondary institutions play in maintaining this continuum and making it relevant.

York University believes that it plays a privileged, and often little-known, role in maintaining the education continuum. The lack of awareness of its role in this regard undoubtedly stems from the fact that its bilingual calling is being obscured in favour of other post-secondary institutions that are better able to show their contribution because of their status.

York University is Canada's third largest, with three campuses and 10 faculties, where some 55,000 students acquire the skills and knowledge they will need to build their future, as well as the Canada and world of tomorrow.

Among these 10 faculties is Glendon College. It was born out of the imagination of senior civil servants in the 1960s and has never strayed from its original mandate: to train tomorrow's public servants while promoting bilingualism and intercultural competence. We proudly claim this mission and fully embrace its uniqueness, despite an economic climate that seems to favour training and research in less traditional fields.

The geopolitical and economic issues facing current society contribute to accentuating the feeling of insecurity that has always preoccupied francophone or bilingual institutions in minority communities.

Of course, all post-secondary institutions are going through a period of uncertainty. They have to make difficult choices, as it's a matter of responding to the economic context without jeopardizing the students' future.

The problem arises all the more acutely in francophone or bilingual post-secondary educational institutions in minority communities, as their academic programs are often incidental to decision-makers, especially when it comes to making difficult choices.

Today, I would like to highlight the vital role that bilingual post-secondary education plays in maintaining the values associated with our official bilingualism—a bilingualism that is demographically asymmetrical and distinctive. The importance of bilingual post-secondary institutions in minority communities cannot be denied. I will attempt to illustrate my point using the institution for which I am responsible.

Glendon College is an essential link in the minority education continuum, not only for the education it provides within its walls, but also for the role it plays indirectly, both upstream and far downstream from post-secondary education. For example, our programs prepare future elementary and secondary school teachers in immersion programs, which, it should be noted, are sometimes the only French-language programs available to linguistic minority populations.

Glendon College also offers the only professional translation baccalaureate program in Ontario, as well as one of only two master's degrees in conference interpreting in Canada. The unique feature of Glendon's is that conference interpreting can be studied in languages other than French and English.

The Glendon School of Public and International Affairs is preparing tomorrow's legislators and diplomats to represent our values and ideas here and around the world.

Through its social sciences and humanities programs, Glendon is training the future economists, psychologists, lawyers and communicators we need. In short, Glendon is training the bilingual leadership Canada needs now and in the future. Those are just a few examples.

Everyone knows that what distinguishes our country on this continent, apart from our public health care system, is our official bilingualism, which is a true national cultural asset. By providing young people with a bilingual and experiential post-secondary ecosystem to develop their full potential, Glendon is helping to preserve and enhance the vitality of Canada's official language minorities.

If the public service, but also the private sector, is able to serve the public in the minority language, it is much more likely that this language will have the opportunity to flourish.

In conclusion, I invite you to consider how our federal institutions can participate, in their own way, in maintaining bilingualism as an essential part of the minority education continuum. Civil society, education, health, social services, justice and the legislative system are all aspects that, through cultural diversity, respect for minorities and official bilingualism, help to define what distinguishes us as a country and to broaden our horizons as Canadians.

Thank you. Merci. Meegwetch.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fiola.

We will now proceed to questions from members.

Mr. Godin has the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning and for telling us about their day-to-day concerns.

Mr. Ajavon, you talked about the 1995 provincial law favouring majority schools.

Can you give us more details about the fact that priority is given to majority groups?

Since Saskatchewan is a very large territory, it may have constraints that explain why we can't meet the needs of francophones or rights holders who live in the regions.

What do you think?

[Ronald Ajavon]

Mr. Godin, thank you for your question.

When I talk about the 1995 act, I'm referring to Saskatchewan's Education Act, 1995.

The problem is the number. When we see that there are so few French-language schools in Saskatchewan, that doesn't automatically lead to the construction of new schools. However, we know that the potential is there.

We've also observed that every time a new school is built, students attend and the school fills up. People say that construction is a good start.

The idea is to be able to look beyond these sometimes restrictive laws and base decisions on the demographic potential of our regions provided by Statistics Canada, for example.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you.

I'm sorry. I'm having a technical issue. I can no longer hear the interpretation, but I won't complain about the technology, because we're going to lose time again.

You also said that institutions accommodating three and four-year-olds were not funded and that those that accommodate five-year-olds were partially funded. We know that early childhood is the incubator for Canadians taking an interest later in life in one of the two official languages, in this case, French.

Isn't that a major problem?

If we can't meet the needs of institutions that offer pre-kindergarten or early childhood services, aren't we creating a problem that persists all the way to the post-secondary level?

[Ronald Ajavon]

That's true, absolutely. You hit the nail on the head, that's the problem.

When things go wrong in early childhood, they go wrong throughout the school system. That means we have to spend and invest even more at the higher levels, particularly in kindergarten to grade 12, to support these young people.

We know that everything happens in the first three years. That's why the early childhood component remains a pivotal force for the education of young people.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says that rights holders are entitled to have their children receive their instruction in the language of their choice.

Therefore, people are not complying with the law if they are doing that.

[Ronald Ajavon]

You're absolutely right.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

How can we address the problem? The federal government's responsibility is to maintain bilingualism in Canada. The province seems to be playing with the numbers and focusing on the language of the majority.

Can you give us a potential solution we can incorporate into the recommendations that will be part of the report we submit to the federal government? Help us help you.

[Ronald Ajavon]

Thank you. You make a critical point.

That's why recommendation 2 in the brief I submitted highlights the pivotal role of the federal government and applauds the Official Languages Act, because it is quite an achievement in itself. However, there's a little more to do.

The Conseil des écoles fransaskoises recommends that, in accordance with section 41 in part VII of the Official Languages Act, the Government of Canada fully exercise its spending power to support the effective implementation of substantive equivalence.

“Substantive equivalence” refers to the aspect you raised, Mr. Godin. This is to ensure that wherever the provinces are failing, the federal government can step in if, of course, the data, the indicators from the councils and the provinces warrant it.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

We agree that the indicators warrant it. The last census found 300,000 rights holders.

[Ronald Ajavon]

I couldn't agree with you more.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

The indicators are there.

That said, how can we ensure compliance with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Official Languages Act?