Evidence of meeting #16 for Public Accounts in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was registry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
This is because of the amnesty? The 1.2 million registered weapons go back to 1995, apparently, from what I'm reading here, and half of those haven't been re-registered since then. Is that accurate? I'll ask the Auditor General's Office.
5:10 p.m.
Peter Kasurak Senior Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
The words you have read, Mr. Chairman--
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Mr. Lake, your time is up. I'm going to get a comment from Mr. Martin. You can answer the question as best you can, and then we're going to go--
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Can I get the clarification from Peter first?
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
First I'll ask Mr. Martin to comment, and then we'll go to the auditor's office.
5:10 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Mr. Chair, I really feel nervous about answering that because a lot of statements were made, and I'm not sure what the clear question is. If you're talking about 1995 data, or if you're talking about the issue of weapons that have not been re-registered or renewed because of the amnesty--it's all over the map.
5:10 p.m.
Senior Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
The actual statement that half the registered firearms in the RWRS have not been re-registered is correct, but it's necessary to fully understand our critique of that. It's not that the system has lost visibility of these weapons; it's that the old database was quite inaccurate, and by re-registering these weapons the accuracy was improved. So for half of them, the data is not up to the same quality as the renewed data.
5:15 p.m.
Senior Principal, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Yes. So that was our point--not that the system had lost sight of 600,000 weapons.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
So from that we know where those weapons were 11 years ago.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Before we go to Mr. Christopherson, I have one question to Mr. Martin on the amnesty.
The amnesty that was given by the government is not a matter of policy; it's a matter of law. You're a senior commissioner in the RCMP, and it is my understanding it would be an illegal act for a government to give an amnesty.
Does the RCMP have any position on that?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
NDP
David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
I have one question to the deputy, and it's an easy one. The Auditor General, in the eleventh point in her statement today, recommended to the committee that we consider asking the RCMP to make formal commitments, similar to those made by the centre when it was stand-alone, vis-à-vis these recommendations. In other words, they've agreed they are going to implement them.
For the record, on behalf of the RCMP, which is now responsible, would you be good enough to give us the undertaking that you also agree with the recommendations and will follow up on them the way the centre did previously?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
You have that commitment. One is already completed and the rest are all under way.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you very much, Mr. Christopherson, for your very brief intervention. We appreciate that.
Mr. Rodriguez is next for five minutes.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
If I understood you correctly, Mr. Martin, you stated that these 600,000 firearms were not registered owing in large part to the gun amnesty. Under the circumstances, owners were not compelled to re-register their firearms. Is that correct?
5:15 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, National Police Services of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I will ask Mr. Bidal to respond to that.
5:15 p.m.
Director General, Canada Firearms Centre
The decision made at that time, or the obligation under law, was that the people were to re-register those firearms. We don't have anything currently to link that to the amnesty.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC
I understood Mr. Martin to say that because of the amnesty, 600,000 firearms had not been...
5:15 p.m.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
I just want to point out that the amnesty was announced after our audit. Therefore, as far as we're concerned, the two incidents are not connected. We simply pointed out that 600,000 firearms had not been re-registered. We also mentioned that the quality of the information was questionable.