Public Accounts Committee on Dec. 12th, 2006

[Bruce Atyeo]

I believe I did subsequently write a letter to the chair of the committee, bringing it back to his attention. We were initially under the impression that the motion would be passed within a matter of weeks. My understanding is that there was a substantial lobbying effort of members of the committee by Royal LePage, which slowed the process down. It took an incredible amount of time.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You said that Royal LePage made efforts to stall the process. What kind of pressure did they apply?

[Bruce Atyeo]

I can't say specifically. I have been advised by my own advisers that Royal LePage did hire a lobbyist, who I assume approached all the members of the committee to lobby them to not vote in favour of the motion to have this matter referred to the Auditor General.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Chairman, we were reminded earlier that the process should be evaluated from the perspective of public accounts. The committee ensured that the issue was brought to the attention of the Auditor General, following a letter. There was a delay that could raise a few questions.

I want to put a question to Mr. Bélair.

Mr. Atyeo just told us that the Royal LePage lobbyists intervened at that time. We know that between April 11, the date of the letter, and the date when the committee adopted a motion asking for the Auditor General to intervene, Ms. Sandra Buckler registered as a lobbyist with your company. Here we have a document that shows that you were in charge of this for Royal LePage.

She was involved in lobbying while you had the contract. She lobbied with Foreign Affairs and International Trade, the Canadian Armed Forces, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the House of Commons and the Senate. Did she also lobby the MPs to sell them houses? Did you have a mandate to do that? Could you tell us what her mandate was? Did she report to you about her lobbying activities?

[Raymond Bélair]

I met Ms. Buckler twice. Her role was to advise us and help us regarding the issues before this committee. She began to work with us and do lobbying for us in the month of May, which was seven months after the contract was awarded to us.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

This is what I am telling you. You already had the contract. So, why was she lobbying?

Mr. Atyeo just stated that he had heard that lobbyists had tried to ensure that committee members not vote in favour of the motion regarding the Auditor General.

Would you confirm this?

[Raymond Bélair]

No.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Are you saying that this is false?

[Raymond Bélair]

I am not saying that it is false, and I cannot confirm that it is true. I do not know whether she was trying to stall the adoption of this motion.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

So you cannot tell us whether or not that was the case?

[Raymond Bélair]

Precisely.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Have you no control over the lobbyists whom you hire? Do you not give them a specific mandate?

[Raymond Bélair]

Their role is to manage affairs that have to do with this committee.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

And do they not report to you about the work they do?

[Raymond Bélair]

Not necessarily.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thus, you hire lobbyists, you pay them and you tell them to go ahead and do their work. Do you not verify anything?

[Raymond Bélair]

Let me clarify a point. One of the roles of our lobbyists is to inform the committee by supplying it with the information it needs. I think that that was what the lobbyists were doing.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

The lobby was certainly not used to explain the nature of the contract; you already had it. However, there was a notice of motion requesting an audit by the Auditor General.

You, Royal LePage, were the ones who engaged Ms. Buckler. Was her mandate to ensure that the audit not happen?

[Raymond Bélair]

I would not go so far as to say that.

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

So you are not ready to tell us whether or not that was what she did?

[Raymond Bélair]

[Editor's Note: Inaudible]

[Jean-Yves Laforest, Bloc, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Merci beaucoup, Monsieur Laforest.

Mr. Fitzpatrick.

[Brian Fitzpatrick, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you.

I want to pursue some questions with officials and with Mr. Goodfellow.

I can understand, Mr. Goodfellow, why you wouldn't want to prepare another proposal. If this is the proposal, it would be a fairly ambitious undertaking to create another one. I can certainly sympathize with the situation you may have been in at that time.

I'm curious about who actually prepared the proposal in 2002. Was it yourself or was it somebody else?

[Richard Goodfellow, Manager, Project Delivery Services Division, Public Works and Government Services Canada]

I was an acting manager at the time, solely dedicated to this procurement process. I think I mentioned last time that it was a collaborative effort with the members of the interdepartmental committee and with the client departments. They were assisting in the preparation of the RFP.